[{"id":"1295","cataloger_name":["Bindu,Reddy"],"partnerInstitution":["Concordia University"],"collection_source_collection":["SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds"],"source_collection_label":["SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds"],"collection_contributing_unit":["Records Management and Archives"],"source_collection_uri":[""],"collection_image_url":[""],"collection_source_collection_description":["The fonds consists of some administrative records of the SGWU Department of English and the Concordia Department of English between 1971 and 2000. It also consists of some SGWU Department of English records related to student academic activities in the 1940s and to public readings and lectures, and a few interviews, produced between 1966 and 1972. The fonds mainly includes minutes of departmental meetings and some course timetables. It also includes some student papers in bound volumes and 63 sound recordings (80 audio reels) mainly composed of poetry readings (see the Concordia SpokenWeb project which uses this material) but also a few lectures given at SGWU. There are also loose typed sheets describing some of the SGWU poetry readings."],"collection_source_collection_id":["I086"],"persistent_url":["http://archives.concordia.ca/I086"],"item_title":["Gary Snyder at Sir George Williams University, The Poetry Series, 5 November 1971\n"],"item_title_source":["Cataloguer"],"item_title_note":["\"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER #1 I006-11-106.1\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. \"I006-11-106.1\" written on sticker on the reel\n\n\"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER #2 I006-11-106.2\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. \"I006-11-106.2\" written on sticker on the reel\n\n\"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER #3 I006-11-106.3\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. \"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER I006-11-106.3\" written on sticker on the reel\n\n\"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER #4 I006-11-106.4\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. \"POETRY READING GARY SNYDER I006-11-106.4\" written on sticker on the reel\n"],"item_language":["English"],"item_production_context":["Documentary recording"],"item_series_title":["The Poetry Series"],"item_subseries_title":["Poetry 6"],"item_identifiers":["[I006-11-106.1, I006-11-106.2, I006-11-106.3, I006-11-106.4]"],"creator_names":["Snyder, Gary"],"creator_names_search":["Snyder, Gary"],"creators":["[{\"url\":\"http://viaf.org/viaf/68944804\",\"name\":\"Snyder, Gary\",\"dates\":\"1930-\",\"notes\":\"American poet and nature activist Gary Snyder was born in San Francisco on May 8, 1930. He spent most of his early life exploring the wilderness and cultures along the Pacific Coast around his parent’s dairy farm in Washington State. In 1942, his family moved to Portland, Oregon and in 1947 he enrolled in Reed College to study literature and anthropology. His senior thesis was later published in 1978 and called He Who Hunted Birds in His Father’s Village: The Dimensions of a Haida Myth (Grey Fox Press). Snyder then worked various jobs with the U.S. Forest Service and Park Service, with timber companies on Native American Reservations, and Snyder even climbed aboard a ship traveling to South America. In 1951, Snyder completed his bachelor’s degree and went to Indiana University to study linguistics, which only lasted one semester, after which, he traveled to San Francisco. Snyder met and lived with the poet Philip Whalen before entering into the University of California, Berkley in 1952 to begin graduate studies in East Asian languages. The poetry scene in San Francisco (San Francisco Renaissance) had begun to take shape and on October 7, 1955, Snyder read with Allen Ginsberg, Philip Lamantia, Michael McClure, Kenneth Rexroth and Philip Whalen at the famous “Six Poets at the Six Gallery”, a reading which launched the ‘Beat’ movement. In 1956, Snyder began formal Buddhist training in Kyoto, Japan, and traveled back and forth from the U.S. several times during the next decade, studying Buddhism and writing poetry. Snyder’s first collection of poetry was Riprap (Four Seasons Foundation, 1959), which was followed the next year by Myths and Texts (Totem Press, 1960), Six Sections from Mountains and Rivers without End (1965), Cold Mountain Poems (Four Seasons, 1965), The Back Country (New Directions, 1968), a collection of essays Earth House Hold (New Directions, 1969), Regarding Wave (Windhover Press, 1969), Manzanita (Four Seasons Foundation, 1972), The Fudo Trilogy (Shaman Drum, 1973) and the Pulitzer Prize-winning Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974). With an increase in popularity, Snyder became a spokesman for environmental issues and served on the Board for the California Arts Council between 1974 and 1979. He began local projects and schools, including the North San Juan School House and the Ring-of-Bone Zendo Buddhist community centre. Snyder then published a series of essays and prose in The Old Ways (City Lights Books, 1977), The Real Work: Interviews and Talks, 1964-1979 (New Directions, 1980), and an account of his travels with poets Joanne Kyger and Allen Ginsberg Passage through India (1983), and a return to poetry with Axe Handles (North Point Press, 1983), and Left Out in the Rain (North Point Press, 1986). Snyder then began teaching at the University of California, Davis, in both the English and Nature and Culture Departments. More recently, he has published essays and poetry in No Nature: New and Selected Poems (Pantheon Books, 1992), a completed version of a long poem previously published Mountains and Rivers without End (Counterpoint, 1996) which won the Bollingen Prize. His collected poetry can be found in The Gary Snyder Reader: Prose, Poetry and Translations 1952-1998 (Counterpoint, 1999) and The High Sierra of California: Poems and Journals of Gary Snyder (Quail Press, 2000). Snyder retired from teaching in 2002, but has continued advocating for environmental issues and writing poetry, publishing Danger on Peaks (Shoemaker & Hoard, 2004), Back on the Fire: Essays (Shoemaker & Hoard, 2007).\",\"nation\":[],\"role\":[\"Author\",\"Performer\"]}]"],"contributors_names":["Sommer, Richard"],"contributors_names_search":["Sommer, Richard"],"contributors":["[{\"url\":\"http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n84036163\",\"name\":\"Sommer, Richard\",\"dates\":\"1934-2012\",\"notes\":\"\",\"nation\":[],\"role\":[\"Series organizer\",\"Presenter\"]}]"],"Presenter_name":["Sommer, Richard"],"Series_organizer_name":["Sommer, Richard"],"Production_Date":[1971],"material_description":["[{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Stereo\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Excellent\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Stereo\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Excellent\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"2 track\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Stereo\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Excellent\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"2 track\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Stereo\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Excellent\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"2 track\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"}]"],"material_designations":["Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel"],"physical_compositions":["Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape"],"recording_type":["Analogue","Analogue","Analogue","Analogue"],"AV_type":["Audio","Audio","Audio","Audio"],"playback_mode":["Stereo","Stereo","Stereo","Stereo"],"Dates":["[{\"date\":\"1971 11 5\",\"type\":\"Production Date\",\"notes\":\"Date apecified in written announcements\\n\",\"source\":\"Supplemental Material\"}]"],"Location":["[{\"url\":\"https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22080570\",\"venue\":\"Hall Building Room H-651\",\"notes\":\"\",\"address\":\"1455, Boul de Maisonneuve Ouest, Montreal, Quebec, Canada\",\"latitude\":\"45.4972758\",\"longitude\":\"-73.57893043\"}]"],"Address":["1455, Boul de Maisonneuve Ouest, Montreal, Quebec, Canada"],"Venue":["Hall Building Room H-651"],"City":["Montreal, Quebec"],"content_notes":["Gary Snyder reads poems later collected in Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974), originally published in a limited edition book called Manzanita (Four Seasons Press, 1972). He also reads one poem from Regarding Wave (Fulcrum Press, 1971), one poem from Coyote’s Journal #9 (1971), one poem from The Fudo Trilogy (Shaman Drum, 1973), and several from Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint) only published in 1997, as well as other poems from unknown sources. "],"contents":["gary_snyder_i006-11-106-1.mp3 [File 1 of 4]\n\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:00:00\nProbably some of us are here in order to look at or touch the Gary Snyder [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q315963] who actually went and did all those semi-mythological things, who has climbed mountains and traveled in India with Allen Ginsberg [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6711], who provided Kerouac [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q160534] with a book character, who has lived in or on the edges of several different kinds of wilderness, who has lived in the precincts of Japanese Buddhist monasteries, who has fought, I think has fought hard, to keep other cultures than ours, and other kinds of life than human life, from obliteration. And who has written poems out of the consciousness of these things. For myself, Gary Snyder hasn't made poems so much as he has provided me with windows made out of words. These are windows that have had a way of, themselves disappearing, leaving me usually standing where I think I want to be, out in the open world. So, I came here, I've come here, to meet whoever it is that makes so many good windows. I'll let you discover for yourselves how much this window-maker is what a windowmaker should be, himself, just open and clear. I'd like to present Gary Snyder.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:02:58\nI forgot one more thing I wanted to have out here. Good evening. I'm going to read in two sets this evening, with a little intermission. And first of all, I'm not going to read any poems tonight from my published books, because those poems are available and what is interesting to me is always what I'm doing, where I'm moving. So I'm going to read from a cycle of short poems, moderately short poems, which I call \"Charms\", and\nthen there'll be a break, and then I'm going to read recent sections that I've been working on from a long poem in progress called \"Mountains and Rivers Without End\". I came back to the United States [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30] from Japan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17] with my wife and children about three years ago now, and went as rapidly as possible to settle in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q26777], on the north slope of the south fork of the Yuba river [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q181973] at three-thousand foot elevation. And I've been living there for almost two years now. I'm saying this by way of introduction to this first cycle of poems called \"Charms\". I was brought up on a farm, and all of my ancestors that I know of, for the last few generations on both sides, were rural people, or miners, miners in Colorado [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1261], Leadville [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q286702], places like that. And it amazes me in a mysterious way how to get back to doing what my father was doing when I was a little boy, and what, and which I remember as a little boy, and to get back to doing what my grandfather was doing, which is to say--again, looking at the fences, looking at the stumps, looking at the house, looking at the well, looking at the spring and saying, how are we going to do it--touches me more deeply than I can possibly explain. And at the same time, being confronted again with these choices, which are the choices of the American frontier, and also the choices of medieval Europeans, and neolithic Mediterranean people, and neolithic Japanese people, and neolithic Chinese people. With what I've come to understand, a little more now, about history, anthropology, and biology, I feel an extraordinary responsibility to understand why I make the choices I make, in such matters as, where does one break the ground and locate a garden, or which trees does one select to fall. In other words, I find myself again in that position of entering virgin land, and this time, I want to understand, in the process of making my own choices, I want to understand why we did it wrong, every time before, and hope to get some insights in how one goes about doing it right, this time. In moving toward that understanding, in making the choices that I have to make, about how we are going to live, in the semi-wilderness and true wilderness of the Sierra Nevada, my teachers have to be scientific foresters, biologists and ecologists on the one hand, and the American Indians on the other. There are no other teachers available for these choices.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:08:02\nAnd so these poems, in the cycle called \"Charms\", reflect those debts and reflect the search for that knowledge, insofar as I've gotten into it up to this point. It starts with a little chant, called \"Grace for Love\". Before we...grace, in the sense of the grace that we say before meals. Which is, grace is gratitude, an expression of gratitude for a meal. And the gratitude that we say at my rancheria is a kind of a rough translation from a Japanese Buddhist grace which goes like this in English: \"We venerate the three treasures and are thankful for this meal, the work of other people, and the suffering of other forms of life.\" The need for grace, for love, is something I became aware of when I realized that there was a level of validity in the Catholic Church's objection to contraceptive devices, insofar as love, like food, is a sacrament, and that there is level in which the act of love should inevitably be connected with the consciousness of its role in moving the seed, in transmitting the energy of the knowledge of the biomass, as transmitted down through time. But I felt that the church is far too simple-minded in assuming that the energy aroused in the sacrament of love, in the direction of fertility, has to mean literally that the people who are acting that sacrament out have to necessarily procreate their own kind. And so we came to this, I and several other people, came to this, as what primitive people would call the transferral of merit, or species-increase ritual. In other words, we make love with gratitude to other beings, and wish to transfer our fertility from the human race to the vanishing species.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:11:09\nPerforms \"Grace for Love\".\n\nGary Snyder\n00:14:20\nReads \"A Curse on the Man In the Pentagon, Washington\".\n\nGary Snyder\n00:16:37\nThat's from a Cheyenne ghost dance song, that little last chorus.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:16:43\nReads \"I went into the Maverick Bar\" [published later  in Turtle Island].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:18:25\nThe Navajo word \"Anasazi\" means \"the ancient ones.\" It's the name that the Navajo gave to the people who lived in the canyons and cliffs of Chaco Canyon [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q49786970] and Canyon De Chelly [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q41679118] and Mesa Verde [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6821095] and many other sites. Probably the people were the ancestors of the present Pueblo people, living there probably up until the twelfth century, till the great drought of the thirteenth century. The people who more than any others, to judge from what the Pueblo people are still able to transmit today, the people who more than any others have achieved what could truly be called \"civilization\" on this continent, and whose lore embodies perhaps two millennia of deep experience. I wrote this at Canyon De Chelly.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:19:52\nReads “Anasazi” [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:21:11\nThe Canyon De Chelly, which will come up in another poem I'm going to read later today, and in fact, all over the West, all over the Great Basin [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q966943], and in other parts of North America [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q49] too, notably on the granite outcroppings on th]e northern shores of Lake Superior [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1066], for example, are designs pecked into the rocks, petroglyphs. Anthropologists, Americanists, whatever you call 'em, haven't had much time to study those petroglyphs yet, because they've been engaged through all the years of this century in a hasty, half-successful salvage operation. Salvaging the remnants of this or that dying culture, recording and taping the last words of a dying language, and they've had no time to give to studying these older things that they know are there, such as the petroglyphs. But the petroglyphs have a repeated vocabulary of motifs which are found in patterns distributed all over North America, and particularly in the West. One of the most widespread is a hand, that someone has put on a cliff or a boulder face, apparently outlined, and then filled it in with red, hematite, or a red hand. That red hand often is lacking a finger, or lacking a finger-joint. This would not be notable in itself if it weren't that in the caves of southern France [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q142] and northern Spain [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q29], there are dated, back as far as 40,000 years, the same red hands, with missing fingers and missing finger-joints are found. This is only one of a number of things which are found all the way. And so this next poem, \"The Way West Underground\", is one of a number of poems, and this is perhaps the most intellectual of them, in which I'm trying to trace out how you get back to make the line of connection between what I know the American knows, what I am beginning to know the American Indian knew, and what I am beginning to know our prehistoric ancestors knew, which was not a different knowledge. And the question of why our prehistoric ancestors lost it is another question. Actually the main impetus of this poem deals with the bears, because there's an international mystery religion called the Bear Cult, that runs all the way from Finland [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33] to Utah [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q829], across Siberia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5428], and it shares the mysterious central theme, which is a girl who marries a bear. I've written several poems about that girl. And about the bears. And so this is coming in on that from another angle.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:25:12\nReads \"The Way West Underground\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nEND\n00:26:55\n\n\ngary_snyder_i006-11-106-2.mp3 [File 2 of 4]\n\nGary Snyder\n00:00:00\n--which is a way Finnish men sing folk songs together.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:00:05\nResumes reading of \"The Way West Underground\".\n\nUnknown\n00:02:20\n[Cut or edit made in tape].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:02:21\nSo I had to trace back again in my mind, with my eyes, with my observation: of course, the plants produce seeds, the birds feed on the seeds, and so forth. Small members of the food chain. The ocean is similar but in a different set of relationships. We live on an exuberance of sexuality. We eat the reproductive organs of grasses: wheat, rice. Because herring or cod have millions of eggs that hatch into millions of almost-microscopic fry, the food chains of the ocean are made possible.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:03:16 \nReads \"The Song of the Taste\" from Regarding Wave.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:04:51\nI read that because it goes so nicely with this other poem, called \"Song to the Raw Material\". I really think a lot about these things these days because I've put myself deliberately in the position of having to know where my food comes from, and it's no longer a question of, like do I eat natural foods or supermarket foods, or do I eat meat or am I a vegetarian, it's more sophisticated than that, it's a lot more subtle than that. Like literally, where did it come from. And by what means can I have a sense of responsibility and gratitude to what it is that I'm eating and in what sense can I repay that world, whichever world it is, that I am feeding off of. Well of course one way you can repay it is by being a willing, and gracious, member of the food chain yourself. Now we are rather large animals, which means that we are rather high in the food chain. But nonetheless, quite edible. And it would be a great honour, really, to be eaten by a large, rare predator, and I can't think of any way I'd rather finish my days than to give myself to a grizzly bear, if I could, you know, choose when. [Laughter]. Like get all my affairs in order first. I'm not ready yet! Or at least, go back, as large creatures often do, go back into the cycle of feeding smaller creatures. But you can see the basic biological ignorance of this society, the ignorance of what systems really are, what basic systems are, and what our responsibilities to our membership in basic systems is, by the fact that they either burn people up or they fill them full of chemicals which make them not tasty, and lock them in bronze caskets, and so forth. The only people in the world who are righteous about this particular question seem to be the Tibetans and the Parsis, I mean, really righteous about it. The Tibetans and the Parsis have an old tradition, which is mentioned, it's so old that it's mentioned by Herodotus [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11925546], in talking about a group of people called the Magi, in Persia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q794], that is to say they expose their dead in elevated places and feed them to the vultures. That's one very elegant way, actually, to deal with it. The Eskimo, an Eskimo shaman whose name I forget, is reputed to have said, \"We live dangerous lives, because our food consists entirely of souls\". “Song to the Raw Material”.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:08:12\nReads \"Song of the Raw Material\".\n\nGary Snyder\n00:09:12\nReads \"Steak\" [published later in Turtle Island; audience laughter and applause throughout].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:10:53\nI saw that in Lethbridge [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q270887], Alberta [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1951]. [Audience laughter]. The creation mythology of Japan, called the kojiki, is very long, and very complicated. I tried to boil it down to some kind of a formula I could understand, at least boil down the first hundred pages of it, so I wrote this--it's about how the world is created according to the Japanese creation mythology. I think. I think that's what it is.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:11:28\nReads \"No matter, never mind\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nAudience\n00:12:14\nLaughter and applause.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:12:24\nIt's funny how the language is smarter than we are, [audience laughter] yeah. Like we can get hung up on mind/matter dualism, but the language won't accept it. It says the same thing two ways. \"The Bath\". Where we live we don't have any electricity or propane, and so we do everything with wood, including heating our bath, which we found the best wood-fired bathing system was a Finnish-type sauna, and...so this poem, you know just to set the scene, it's a somewhat longer poem, this poem is a sauna, with a wood-burning stove that also heats a tank of water on the side, and with a bench that you sit up on and a lower place that you can get down on and wash with. You can get these wood-fired sauna-stoves from some Finnish outfit in Michigan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1166]. The only place in the United States that I have been able to locate that makes sauna stoves that fire wood. I highly recommend them. The personae in this are my wife, my three-year old son, my three-and a-half year old son, my two-year-old son.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:14:00\nReads \"The Bath\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:19:31\nSome friends said to us, when we moved up to the backcountry, ah, you're just getting away from your responsibilities. You're evading the struggle. So I wrote this little poem as a, kind of a light answer to that. It's called \"Front Lines\".\n\nGary Snyder\n00:19:59\nReads \"Front Lines\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:21:36\nThat poem is not an exaggeration of what we're doing. We are, like, where I am and a number of other people I know around this continent, have their backs up against the wilderness, so to speak, and they're not going to let this thing go past them. If they can help it, or as you say, over my dead body. The California Indians used to set control burns, as distinct from wildfires, forestry terms, which contributed to the maintenance of what you might call a climax timber stand, keeping the undergrowth burnt out, keeping an annual deer-forage coming in, and protecting the large timber, as it were, from destructive forest fires, because whenever a forest fire--which is very common in California [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q99], it's an annual event--whenever forest fires go through, went through the forests when they were in that condition, it simply went through taking the ground cover off, but couldn't get hot enough or high enough to kill the large trees. With the advent of logging, mining, and the Manzanita brush that follows on that, the whole flora of California changed radically. All of the flora of California changed. What happened was that the woods got very brushy, and then the early forestry practices which were, of course, to put forest fires out whenever they came on them, in some ways contributed to the increasingly dangerous situation of dense brush, logging slash laying around, second-growth trees not really very large yet, and a situation where every brush fire that went through killed absolutely everything grew up. And that's the state of the state now, to a large extent, although there are some hip foresters now who are back into control burns as best as they can. This poem is called \"Control Burn\" and it only starts from what I'm just talking about, taking that as an image.\n\nGary Snyder\n00:24:00\nReads \"Control Burn\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nGary Snyder\n00:25:37\nReads \"The Great Mother\" [published later in Turtle Island].\n\nEND\n00:26:55\n\n\ngary_snyder_i006-11-106-3.mp3 [File 3 of 4]\n\nGary Snyder\n00:00:00\nEverything in this next poem is all true. Almost everything.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:00:17\nReads \"The Call of the Wild\", Part I [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:00:32\nReads \"The Call of the Wild\", Part II [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nAnnotation\n00:01:52.06\nReads \"The Call of the Wild,\" Part III [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:04:11\nReads \"Source\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:05:40\nIn the poem \"Charms\", which is dedicated to Michael McClure [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1390054], who has more than any other living poet, or person even that I know, has gone farther than anyone else, I think, into becoming one with, in understanding, in penetrating, in perceiving the consciousness of other beings.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:06:15\nReads \"Charms\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nAudience\n00:07:45\nApplause. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:08:01\nI want to read one little poem that kind of, that I just wrote on the plane the other day.  Flying in here yesterday I wrote this. And then we'll take a break. But this belongs, really, with these poems. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:08:15\nReads \"How did a great red-tailed Hawk come to lie on the shoulder of Interstate 5\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:10:05\nOkay, let's take a break.  \n\nAudience\n00:10:07\nApplause.\n\nUnknown\n00:10:17\nAmbient Sound [voices].\n \nAudience Member 1\n00:10:29\nDo you remember getting tiny toys for your children from San Francisco [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62]? There was a small book that I saw in the States, folded out in a certain, section-by-section, parts of the earth kinda, growing larger and larger and larger...\n \nGary Snyder\n00:10:46\nI haven't seen it.\n \nAudience Member 1\n00:10:48\nNo, I guess...it's sort of, um, anti-war toys.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:10:51\nSounds nice. Yeah. Some place in San Francisco you can get it?\n \nAudience Member 1\n00:10:56\nUm, I don't know, it was from a certain, a certain group of people, and I don't remember their names. It was beautiful. Nice gift to give little kids.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:07\nI shall watch for it when I go there again. Thank you. \n \nAudience Member 1\n00:11:13\nOkay. You bet. [Inaudible]\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:14\nOkay. [Laughter].\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:19\nMan you're incredible. You're so good. I really dig your stuff.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:26\n[Laughter]. Thank you.\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:26\nI really dig it, will you come for a drink with me later? With me and my friends?\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:31\nI gotta go some place later.\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:33\nYou sure? \n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:34\nYeah. I mean, like I...they got something set up for me. \n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:38\nI don't, I don't know, I really dig that, I really dig that [inaudible] I just came in, I thought your stuff was so incredible...Your stuff, the way you bring it across to people!\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:51\nWell, that's what I try to do.\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:54\nHave you written a book?\n \nGary Snyder\n00:11:54\nI've written a lot of books. [Laughter].\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:11:58\nNo no no, no really, no really, I don't know too much about...Gary Snyder, you know?\n \nGary Snyder\n00:12:04\nWell, you'd probably find, I don't know, because I'm coming here, because of my being here now, they've probably got some of my books in the bookstore, if you want to go look. [Laughter].\n \nAudience Member 2\n00:12:13\nSee I'm writing this play right now, you know? I'm trying to express myself and it's really...it's really strange [Cut off abruptly].\n \nUnknown\n00:12:27\n[Cut or edit in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed].\n \nGary Snyder\n00:12:28\nWell, there has been a great deal of opposition to nuclear energy, and nuclear power-generating stations, in the United States so effective in some areas that a lot of generating plants have been blocked or slowed down in their construction. And I think that the United States government is about to launch on an enormous effort to calm the public and to lull it into accepting massive developments of nuclear energy generating centres, fast-breeder and later, perhaps, fusion. Now I myself would have no objection to such a thing if I could be convinced that it was safe, both in the long term and the short term, and although it might be conceivably safe in the short term, I can see no way in which it would be safe in the long run, because nuclear wastes accumulated over, say, several centuries, as they might be, or more, in increasing quantities around the globe, are going to out eventually, and even though you can say, well, we're putting it off for five hundred thousand years, five hundred thousand years is not a very long time.  And if we are feeding a wasteful, industrial, technological, consumer society for a few more centuries, buying it a few more centuries of life, at the expense of all future biological health on the planet, it's obviously not worth it. The Amchitka test, which is possibly interested in such things as what uses very large explosions would have in releasing oil from oil-bearing shale or something like that, I think the U.S. administration is going ahead with this test in the face of all this criticism, deliberately, as a deliberate and very intelligent gamble. The chances are that nothing will happen. When nothing happens, then they will be able to say, \"All you people were hysterical. You see?  Nothing happened\".  And that will buy them a lot of time and a lot of credibility to proceed strongly and forcibly with more nuclear testing and more nuclear power generation development. And the conservationists, perhaps, have in a way, played into their hands, by making such a big issue out of it, so that they will be left holding an empty bag if nothing happens. If something does happen, then the administration can say, \"You're right, we were wrong\", and Nixon [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9588] perhaps forfeits the next election. That's all. Okay. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:15:25.61\n\"Mountains and Rivers Without End\" is a poem that I've been working on, it's a long poem, a long series of interconnected long poems that I've been working on for some years. I'm going to read several sections from that tonight. Including one or two that are very recent, in fact these are all pretty recent. \"Mountains and Rivers without End\". The title of the poem comes from a Yuan Dynasty [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7313] Chinese scroll, that unfolds sideways and is thirty-five feet long. By way of introduction, a little poem called \"The Rabbit\". There are many sections to this, I'm only going to read [counts under breath.]..six tonight.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:16:27\nReads \"The Rabbit\" [published later in Mountains and Rivers Without End].\n \nGary Snyder\n00:18:04\n\"The California Water Plan\". The state of California at the moment is engaged in a large, incredibly wasteful, incredibly stupid, illegal, even by their own terms, water plan project, which if they're lucky, will salinate the Sacramento Valley [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1686914] and make agriculture permanently impossible. I was up in the Minarets [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2412852] in the Sierra last summer, thinking about the California Water Plan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28228216], and I perceived something of what the true California Water Plan was. So I wrote this down. It refers to an obscure little Buddhist god called Fudo, or Achala [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q337624], who is my particular guardian, my personal guardian and my personal teacher, and, so I use, I refer to him, in several poems. The other two poems in which I refer to him actually are a piece called \"Smokey the Bear Sutra\", and another piece called \"Spell Against Demons\". This is the final, actually, this is the third and final poem in the trilogy of Fudo poems. Also. But you'll find all about Fudo in this poem, it'll drive you crazy.    \n \nGary Snyder\n00:19:48\nReads \"The California Water Plan\" [later published in The Fudo Trilogy].\n \nGary Snyder\n00:25:34\n\"Kumarajiva's Mother\". Now, the rest of these poems that I'm going to read this evening are cutting back and forth between ancient India [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q668] and ancient North America. I--living as I do and where I have lived all my life, we face the Pacific [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q98]. And, the American Indian came from Asia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q48], or vice versa, the Asians came from North America. I mean I know a Shoshone who says that. He says, \"We've always been here, those Asians came from here\". [Laughter].  \"What do you mean we came from someplace else, that's some white anthropologist theory\". [Laughter]. \"Kumarajiva's Mother.\" Kumarajiva [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q335293] was a great Buddhist monk-scholar-translator, who was kidnapped by the Chinese from Central Asia, by force, and carried off to China [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q148] where he was made to translate Sanskrit Buddhist texts into Chinese, and he stayed there the rest of his life, with a crew of about eighty Chinese assistants, day and night, translating sutras. He did a lot of translation. He also got in trouble, because he liked girls, and on one occasion, because he actually had mistresses apparently, he ate a bowl of needles, like you sew with needles, in front of an assembly of all the monks and assistants in Peking [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q956], or no it wasn't Peking in those days, it was Chang'an [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6501000], all of the monks and assistants in the capital, Chang'an, and then he said, \"When you boys can eat needles, you can have girlfriends too\". [Audience laughter]. But this poem is about his mother. [Audience laughter]. And I really, I mean I could explain to you why I wrote this poem but it isn't really worth explaining, I'll just read it. It has to do partly with the fact that my mother has freckles. And I was trying to figure out at this time, when I wrote this, I was trying to figure out whatever happened to women in Buddhism? Like something happened to 'em. They got lost. For a long time, anyway.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:28:22\nReads \"Kumarajiva's Mother\".\n \nEND\n00:30:59\n\n\ngary_snyder_i006-11-106-4.mp3 [File 4 of 4]\n \nGary Snyder\n00:00:00\n...alone in the 8th century, and studied at an enormous Buddhist, Mahayana university called Nalanda [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q216243], for fifteen years, and then walked back to China, with a fraying pack full of books, which he translated for the next twenty years after he got back to China. He brought the school of Buddhism, which is called the school of Mind Only, and the school of Emptiness. That's one aspect of this next poem. Another aspect is a little petroglyph, American Indian petroglyph figure, called the hump-backed flute player, a little stick figure playing the flute, with a pack on his back, walking. He was found pecked on the rocks from Sonora [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q46422], Mexico [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q96] up into the Great Basin, and about which almost nothing is known. The Ghost Dance, which was a Messianic Indian religion, started by a Paiute named Wovoka https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q558420], which asserted that perhaps by magic the white man could be swept away from North America and the game would return.  And finally, the oldest living beings are the bristle-coned pine, who live in the White Mountains [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1556007], at an elevation of nine thousand feet in eastern California, the oldest of which is something like four thousand five hundred years old. So this poem is called \"The Humpbacked Flute Player\".\n \nGary Snyder\n00:01:59\nReads \"The Humpbacked Flute Player\" from Coyote’s Journal #9 [and published later in Mountains and Rivers Without End]. \n \nGary Snyder\n00:08:36\nI'm going to finish with one more poem called \"Down\". These poems are not in the order that they're going to be, but they're in a convenient order for the moment.\n \nGary Snyder\n00:09:05\nReads \"Down\".\n \nAudience\n00:11:48\nApplause.\n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:12:18\nI can't thank you for that. I don't know any way. Charles Simic [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q722555] will be reading on November 19th. Thank you. \n\nAudience\n00:12:40 \nApplause.\n\nEND\n00:12:45\n"],"Note":["[{\"note\":\"Year-Specific Information:\\n\\nIn 1971, Gary Snyder published The back country (New Directions Press) and First time round (Roaring Fork Press), the first edition of Manzanita (Kent State University), Swimming naked in the Yuba River (Maidu Press), Anasazi (Yes! Press), Regarding Wave: Poems (Fulcrum Press) contributed to Sky, sea, birds, trees, earth, house, beasts, flowers (Unicorn Press) with Kenneth Rexroth, to Coyote’s journal: #9 (Book People) with Albert Glover, James Coller and Allen Ginsberg, and to Six poems/seven prints (Kent State University) with Alex Gildzen, John Ashbery, James Bertolino, Gwendolyn Brooks, Denise Levertov and Steven Osterlund.\",\"type\":\"General\"},{\"note\":\"Local Connections:\\n\\nIt is not clear what Gary Snyder’s connection to Sir George Williams University or Montreal was, but he no doubt had an influential role in the shaping of American poetry, specifically in the San Francisco Renaissance and the Beat movement. The series tried to include poets from all types of poetry backgrounds and from both Canada and the U.S.; Snyder was an important American poet at this time.\",\"type\":\"General\"},{\"note\":\"Original transcript and print catalogue by Rachel Kyne\\n\\nOriginal print catalogue, introduction, research and edits by Celyn Harding-Jones\\n\\nAdditional research and edits by Ali Barillaro\\n\",\"type\":\"Cataloguer\"},{\"note\":\"4 reel-to-reel tapes>2 CDs>4 digital files\",\"type\":\"Preservation\"}]"],"Related_works":["[{\"url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#1\",\"citation\":\"Boxer, Avi; Bryan McCarthy and Graham Seal. “Letters: re: Reverend Richard J. Sommer”. The Georgian. Montreal: Sir George Williams University, 12 November 1971, page 4. \"},{\"url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#1\",\"citation\":\"Boxer, Avi; Bryan McCarthy and Graham Seal. “Letters: Get Your Shit Together...”. The Georgian. Montreal: Sir George Williams University, 19 November 1971, page 4. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-encyclopedia-of-american-literature/oclc/769478515&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"DiFranco, Aaron K. \\\"Snyder, Gary\\\". The Oxford Encyclopedia of American Literature. Jay Parini (ed). Oxford University Press, 2004. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-companion-to-twentieth-century-poetry-in-english/oclc/807465072&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Maxwell, Glyn. \\\"Snyder, Gary\\\". The Oxford Companion to Twentieth-Century Poetry in English. Ian Hamilton (ed). Oxford University Press, 1996. \"},{\"url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#1\",\"citation\":\"Morrissey, Stephen. “Letters: Inexcusable Ignorance”. The Georgian. Montreal: Sir George Williams University, 26 November 1971, page 4. \"},{\"url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#1\",\"citation\":\"Pearson, Allen. “Letters: The Second Coming?”. The Georgian. Montreal: Sir George Williams University, 12 November 1971, page 4. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/fudo-trilogy/oclc/622284906&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Snyder, Gary. The Fudo Trilogy. Berkley, California: Shaman Drum, 1973. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6925688\",\"citation\":\"Snyder, Gary. Mountains and Rivers Without End. Washington, D.C.: Counterpoint Press, 1996. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/regarding-wave-gary-snyder/oclc/463402884&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Snyder, Gary. Regarding Wave. New York: New Directions Press, 1967. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/six-sections-from-mountains-and-rivers-without-end/oclc/295205&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Snyder, Gary. Six Sections from Mountains and Rivers Without End. San Francisco: Four Seasons Press, 1965. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/concise-oxford-companion-to-american-literature/oclc/1146399202&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"\\\"Snyder, Gary\\\". The Concise Oxford Companion to American Literature. James D. Hart (ed). Oxford University Press, 1986. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-companion-to-american-literature/oclc/54356940&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"\\\"Snyder, Gary [Sherman]\\\". The Oxford Companion to American Literature. James D. Hart (ed.), Phillip W. Leininger (rev). Oxford University Press, 1995. \"},{\"url\":\"\",\"citation\":\"Snyder, Gary. Turtle Island. 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Back\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/I0006_11_0106-4_side.jpg\",\"file_path\":\"\",\"filename\":\"I0006_11_0106-4_side.jpg\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"\",\"notes\":\"https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0cAe1GF8xZsc62jpUDXwgvyCd6ZmvSw\",\"title\":\"Gary Snyder Tape Box 4 - Spine\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/gary_snyder_i006-11-106-1.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-1.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:26:55\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"64.6 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-1.mp3 [File 1 of 4]\\n\\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:00:00\\nProbably some of us are here in order to look at or touch the Gary Snyder [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q315963] who actually went and did all those semi-mythological things, who has climbed mountains and traveled in India with Allen Ginsberg [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6711], who provided Kerouac [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q160534] with a book character, who has lived in or on the edges of several different kinds of wilderness, who has lived in the precincts of Japanese Buddhist monasteries, who has fought, I think has fought hard, to keep other cultures than ours, and other kinds of life than human life, from obliteration. And who has written poems out of the consciousness of these things. For myself, Gary Snyder hasn't made poems so much as he has provided me with windows made out of words. These are windows that have had a way of, themselves disappearing, leaving me usually standing where I think I want to be, out in the open world. So, I came here, I've come here, to meet whoever it is that makes so many good windows. I'll let you discover for yourselves how much this window-maker is what a windowmaker should be, himself, just open and clear. I'd like to present Gary Snyder.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:02:58\\nI forgot one more thing I wanted to have out here. Good evening. I'm going to read in two sets this evening, with a little intermission. And first of all, I'm not going to read any poems tonight from my published books, because those poems are available and what is interesting to me is always what I'm doing, where I'm moving. So I'm going to read from a cycle of short poems, moderately short poems, which I call \\\"Charms\\\", and\\nthen there'll be a break, and then I'm going to read recent sections that I've been working on from a long poem in progress called \\\"Mountains and Rivers Without End\\\". I came back to the United States [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30] from Japan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17] with my wife and children about three years ago now, and went as rapidly as possible to settle in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q26777], on the north slope of the south fork of the Yuba river [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q181973] at three-thousand foot elevation. And I've been living there for almost two years now. I'm saying this by way of introduction to this first cycle of poems called \\\"Charms\\\". I was brought up on a farm, and all of my ancestors that I know of, for the last few generations on both sides, were rural people, or miners, miners in Colorado [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1261], Leadville [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q286702], places like that. And it amazes me in a mysterious way how to get back to doing what my father was doing when I was a little boy, and what, and which I remember as a little boy, and to get back to doing what my grandfather was doing, which is to say--again, looking at the fences, looking at the stumps, looking at the house, looking at the well, looking at the spring and saying, how are we going to do it--touches me more deeply than I can possibly explain. And at the same time, being confronted again with these choices, which are the choices of the American frontier, and also the choices of medieval Europeans, and neolithic Mediterranean people, and neolithic Japanese people, and neolithic Chinese people. With what I've come to understand, a little more now, about history, anthropology, and biology, I feel an extraordinary responsibility to understand why I make the choices I make, in such matters as, where does one break the ground and locate a garden, or which trees does one select to fall. In other words, I find myself again in that position of entering virgin land, and this time, I want to understand, in the process of making my own choices, I want to understand why we did it wrong, every time before, and hope to get some insights in how one goes about doing it right, this time. In moving toward that understanding, in making the choices that I have to make, about how we are going to live, in the semi-wilderness and true wilderness of the Sierra Nevada, my teachers have to be scientific foresters, biologists and ecologists on the one hand, and the American Indians on the other. There are no other teachers available for these choices.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:08:02\\nAnd so these poems, in the cycle called \\\"Charms\\\", reflect those debts and reflect the search for that knowledge, insofar as I've gotten into it up to this point. It starts with a little chant, called \\\"Grace for Love\\\". Before we...grace, in the sense of the grace that we say before meals. Which is, grace is gratitude, an expression of gratitude for a meal. And the gratitude that we say at my rancheria is a kind of a rough translation from a Japanese Buddhist grace which goes like this in English: \\\"We venerate the three treasures and are thankful for this meal, the work of other people, and the suffering of other forms of life.\\\" The need for grace, for love, is something I became aware of when I realized that there was a level of validity in the Catholic Church's objection to contraceptive devices, insofar as love, like food, is a sacrament, and that there is level in which the act of love should inevitably be connected with the consciousness of its role in moving the seed, in transmitting the energy of the knowledge of the biomass, as transmitted down through time. But I felt that the church is far too simple-minded in assuming that the energy aroused in the sacrament of love, in the direction of fertility, has to mean literally that the people who are acting that sacrament out have to necessarily procreate their own kind. And so we came to this, I and several other people, came to this, as what primitive people would call the transferral of merit, or species-increase ritual. In other words, we make love with gratitude to other beings, and wish to transfer our fertility from the human race to the vanishing species.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:09\\nPerforms \\\"Grace for Love\\\".\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:14:20\\nReads \\\"A Curse on the Man In the Pentagon, Washington\\\".\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:16:37\\nThat's from a Cheyenne ghost dance song, that little last chorus.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:16:43\\nReads \\\"I went into the Maverick Bar\\\" [published later  in Turtle Island].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:18:25\\nThe Navajo word \\\"Anasazi\\\" means \\\"the ancient ones.\\\" It's the name that the Navajo gave to the people who lived in the canyons and cliffs of Chaco Canyon [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q49786970] and Canyon De Chelly [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q41679118] and Mesa Verde [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6821095] and many other sites. Probably the people were the ancestors of the present Pueblo people, living there probably up until the twelfth century, till the great drought of the thirteenth century. The people who more than any others, to judge from what the Pueblo people are still able to transmit today, the people who more than any others have achieved what could truly be called \\\"civilization\\\" on this continent, and whose lore embodies perhaps two millennia of deep experience. I wrote this at Canyon De Chelly.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:19:52\\nReads “Anasazi” [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:21:11\\nThe Canyon De Chelly, which will come up in another poem I'm going to read later today, and in fact, all over the West, all over the Great Basin [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q966943], and in other parts of North America [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q49] too, notably on the granite outcroppings on th]e northern shores of Lake Superior [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1066], for example, are designs pecked into the rocks, petroglyphs. Anthropologists, Americanists, whatever you call 'em, haven't had much time to study those petroglyphs yet, because they've been engaged through all the years of this century in a hasty, half-successful salvage operation. Salvaging the remnants of this or that dying culture, recording and taping the last words of a dying language, and they've had no time to give to studying these older things that they know are there, such as the petroglyphs. But the petroglyphs have a repeated vocabulary of motifs which are found in patterns distributed all over North America, and particularly in the West. One of the most widespread is a hand, that someone has put on a cliff or a boulder face, apparently outlined, and then filled it in with red, hematite, or a red hand. That red hand often is lacking a finger, or lacking a finger-joint. This would not be notable in itself if it weren't that in the caves of southern France [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q142] and northern Spain [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q29], there are dated, back as far as 40,000 years, the same red hands, with missing fingers and missing finger-joints are found. This is only one of a number of things which are found all the way. And so this next poem, \\\"The Way West Underground\\\", is one of a number of poems, and this is perhaps the most intellectual of them, in which I'm trying to trace out how you get back to make the line of connection between what I know the American knows, what I am beginning to know the American Indian knew, and what I am beginning to know our prehistoric ancestors knew, which was not a different knowledge. And the question of why our prehistoric ancestors lost it is another question. Actually the main impetus of this poem deals with the bears, because there's an international mystery religion called the Bear Cult, that runs all the way from Finland [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33] to Utah [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q829], across Siberia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5428], and it shares the mysterious central theme, which is a girl who marries a bear. I've written several poems about that girl. And about the bears. And so this is coming in on that from another angle.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:25:12\\nReads \\\"The Way West Underground\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nEND\\n00:26:55\\n\",\"notes\":\"Gary Snyder reads poems later collected in Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974), originally published in a limited edition book called Manzanita (Four Seasons Press, 1972). He also reads one poem from Regarding Wave (Fulcrum Press, 1971), one poem from Coyote’s Journal #9 (1971), one poem from The Fudo Trilogy (Shaman Drum, 1973), and several from Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint) only published in 1997, as well as other poems from unknown sources. \\n\\nI006-11-106=AC.1\\n00:17- Introducer (Perhaps Richard Sommer) introduces Gary Snyder. [INDEX: semi mythological things, climbed mountains and traveled to India with Allen Ginsberg, Jack\\nKerouac’s book character, wilderness, living in precincts of Japanese Buddhist\\nmonasteries, keeping cultures from obliteration, poems out of the consciousness,\\nwindows, open world, window-maker].\\n02:58- Gary Snyder introduces the reading, and poetry cycle “Charms” and long poem\\n“Mountains and Rivers Without End”. [INDEX: reading in two sets, all poems read\\nare unpublished, long poem in-progress “Mountains and Rivers Without End”, returning\\nfrom Japan to the U.S. three years prior, wife and children, settling in the foothills of the\\nSierra Nevada, north slope of the south fork of the Yuba river, three-thousand foot\\nelevation, origins on a farm, miners in Leadville, Colorado, how to get back to father’s\\noccupation, childhood, grandfather, fences, as a child in nature, spring (river), American\\nfrontier, medieval Europeans, neolithic Mediterranean people, neolithic Japanese people, neolithic Chinese people, history, anthropology, biology, responsibility of humans’ place on earth, choices we make in terms of nature, scientific foresters, ecologists, American Indians (as teachers)].\\n08:02- Introduces poetry cycle “Charms”, and “Grace for Love”. [INDEX: debts, search for knowledge, grace (gratitude for meal), rancheria, Japanese Buddhist grace, love, level of validity in the Catholic Church’s objection to contraception, food, sacrament, act of love, transference of ‘seed’ or knowledge, transferral of merit, species-increase ritual; from unknown source].\\n11:09- Chants “Grace for Love”.\\n14:20- Reads “A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon, Washington”. [INDEX: from unknown source].\\n16:37- Explains last chorus of “A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon, Washington”.\\n16:43- Reads “I went into the Maverick Bar”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n18:25- Introduces “Anasazi”. [INDEX: means ‘ancient ones’ in Navajo, name of people living in Chaco Canyon, Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chelly, ancestors of present Pueblo people, 12th century, the great drought of the 13th century, civilization, two millennia of ‘deep experience’, written at Canyon de Chelly; from Turtle Island]\\n19:52- Reads “Anasazi”.\\n21:11- Introduces “The Way West Underground”. [INDEX: Canyon de Chelly, West and Great Basin, granite outcroppings of the northern shores of Lake Superior, petroglyphs,\\nAnthropologists, salvaging remnants of dying cultures, vocabulary of motifs, hand\\npetroglyph, caves of southern France and northern Spain, 40,000 years ago, intellectual\\npoem, tracing out lines of connections between Americans, American Indians, prehistoric ancestors, main impetus of the poem is an international mystery religion called the Bear Cult, runs from Finland to Utah, Siberia, central theme: girl who marries a bear; from Turtle Island].\\n25:12- Reads “The Way West Underground”.\\n26:55- Interjects comment about poem. [INDEX: Finnish men singing folk songs].\\n[*note: cut or edit made in transcript, time elapsed unknown*]\\n29:16- Snyder is talking (not sure if it’s about the poem). [INDEX: observation, plants, seeds, birds, small members of food chain, ocean, exuberance of sexuality, reproductive organs of grasses, wheat, rice, herring, cod, millions of eggs, food chain of the ocean].\\n30:11- Reads “The Song of the Taste”. [INDEX: from Regarding Wave].\\n31:46- Introduces “Song for the Raw Material”. [INDEX: food, natural vs. supermarket foods, vegetarian vs. carnivore, being part of the food chain, being eaten by a bear, biological ignorance of society, basic systems, chemicals, Tibetans and Parsis, Herodotus, Maghi in Persia, feeding dead to the vultures, Eskimo shaman quote].\\n35:07- Reads “Song of the Raw Material”. [INDEX: perhaps “Song to the Raw Material”,\\nunknown source].\\n36:07- Reads “Steak”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n37:48- Introduces “No matter, never mind”. [INDEX: Lethbridge, Alberta, creation mythology of Japan (koji-ki); from Turtle Island].\\n38:23- Reads “No matter, never mind”.\\n39:19- Introduces “The Bath”. [INDEX: no electricity (wood heating), Finnish sauna, poem as a sauna, Michigan, personae in the poem are his wife, three sons; from Turtle Island].\\n40:55- Reads “The Bath”.\\n46:26- Introduces “Front Lines”. [INDEX: evading the struggle; from Turtle Island].\\n46:54- Reads “Front Lines”.\\n48:31- Explains parts of “Front Lines”, introduces “Control Burn”. [INDEX: wilderness,\\nCalifornia ‘Indians’, control burns, forest fires in California, logging, mining, Manzanita\\nbrush, flora changing; from Turtle Island].\\n50:55- Reads “Control Burn”.\\n52:32- Reads “The Great Mother”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n\\nFIRST CD (I006-11-106=AC.1)\\nPoem Read:\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tTime Stamp\\tDuration (mins):\\n\\n“Grace for Love”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:11:09   \\t03:10\\n“A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon…” \\t00:14:20        02:17\\n“I went into the Maverick Bar…”  \\t\\t\\t00:16:23        01:42\\n“Anasazi”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:19:52        02:17\\n“The Way West Underground”  \\t\\t\\t00:25:12        04:01\\n“The Song of the Taste”  \\t\\t\\t\\t00:30:11        01:35\\n“Song for the Raw Material”  \\t\\t\\t00:35:07        00:58\\n“Steak”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:36:07        01:41\\n“No Matter, Never Mind”   \\t\\t\\t\\t00:38:23        00:46\\n“The Bath” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:40:55        05:29\\n“Front Lines” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:46:54        01:36\\n“Control Burn” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:50:55        01:37\\n“The Great Mother”  \\t\\t\\t\\t00:52:32        00:42\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#1\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/gary_snyder_i006-11-106-2.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-2.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:26:55\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"63.2 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-2.mp3 [File 2 of 4]\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:00\\n--which is a way Finnish men sing folk songs together.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:05\\nResumes reading of \\\"The Way West Underground\\\".\\n\\nUnknown\\n00:02:20\\n[Cut or edit made in tape].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:02:21\\nSo I had to trace back again in my mind, with my eyes, with my observation: of course, the plants produce seeds, the birds feed on the seeds, and so forth. Small members of the food chain. The ocean is similar but in a different set of relationships. We live on an exuberance of sexuality. We eat the reproductive organs of grasses: wheat, rice. Because herring or cod have millions of eggs that hatch into millions of almost-microscopic fry, the food chains of the ocean are made possible.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:03:16 \\nReads \\\"The Song of the Taste\\\" from Regarding Wave.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:04:51\\nI read that because it goes so nicely with this other poem, called \\\"Song to the Raw Material\\\". I really think a lot about these things these days because I've put myself deliberately in the position of having to know where my food comes from, and it's no longer a question of, like do I eat natural foods or supermarket foods, or do I eat meat or am I a vegetarian, it's more sophisticated than that, it's a lot more subtle than that. Like literally, where did it come from. And by what means can I have a sense of responsibility and gratitude to what it is that I'm eating and in what sense can I repay that world, whichever world it is, that I am feeding off of. Well of course one way you can repay it is by being a willing, and gracious, member of the food chain yourself. Now we are rather large animals, which means that we are rather high in the food chain. But nonetheless, quite edible. And it would be a great honour, really, to be eaten by a large, rare predator, and I can't think of any way I'd rather finish my days than to give myself to a grizzly bear, if I could, you know, choose when. [Laughter]. Like get all my affairs in order first. I'm not ready yet! Or at least, go back, as large creatures often do, go back into the cycle of feeding smaller creatures. But you can see the basic biological ignorance of this society, the ignorance of what systems really are, what basic systems are, and what our responsibilities to our membership in basic systems is, by the fact that they either burn people up or they fill them full of chemicals which make them not tasty, and lock them in bronze caskets, and so forth. The only people in the world who are righteous about this particular question seem to be the Tibetans and the Parsis, I mean, really righteous about it. The Tibetans and the Parsis have an old tradition, which is mentioned, it's so old that it's mentioned by Herodotus [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11925546], in talking about a group of people called the Magi, in Persia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q794], that is to say they expose their dead in elevated places and feed them to the vultures. That's one very elegant way, actually, to deal with it. The Eskimo, an Eskimo shaman whose name I forget, is reputed to have said, \\\"We live dangerous lives, because our food consists entirely of souls\\\". “Song to the Raw Material”.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:08:12\\nReads \\\"Song of the Raw Material\\\".\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:09:12\\nReads \\\"Steak\\\" [published later in Turtle Island; audience laughter and applause throughout].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:10:53\\nI saw that in Lethbridge [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q270887], Alberta [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1951]. [Audience laughter]. The creation mythology of Japan, called the kojiki, is very long, and very complicated. I tried to boil it down to some kind of a formula I could understand, at least boil down the first hundred pages of it, so I wrote this--it's about how the world is created according to the Japanese creation mythology. I think. I think that's what it is.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:28\\nReads \\\"No matter, never mind\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nAudience\\n00:12:14\\nLaughter and applause.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:12:24\\nIt's funny how the language is smarter than we are, [audience laughter] yeah. Like we can get hung up on mind/matter dualism, but the language won't accept it. It says the same thing two ways. \\\"The Bath\\\". Where we live we don't have any electricity or propane, and so we do everything with wood, including heating our bath, which we found the best wood-fired bathing system was a Finnish-type sauna, and...so this poem, you know just to set the scene, it's a somewhat longer poem, this poem is a sauna, with a wood-burning stove that also heats a tank of water on the side, and with a bench that you sit up on and a lower place that you can get down on and wash with. You can get these wood-fired sauna-stoves from some Finnish outfit in Michigan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1166]. The only place in the United States that I have been able to locate that makes sauna stoves that fire wood. I highly recommend them. The personae in this are my wife, my three-year old son, my three-and a-half year old son, my two-year-old son.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:14:00\\nReads \\\"The Bath\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:19:31\\nSome friends said to us, when we moved up to the backcountry, ah, you're just getting away from your responsibilities. You're evading the struggle. So I wrote this little poem as a, kind of a light answer to that. It's called \\\"Front Lines\\\".\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:19:59\\nReads \\\"Front Lines\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:21:36\\nThat poem is not an exaggeration of what we're doing. We are, like, where I am and a number of other people I know around this continent, have their backs up against the wilderness, so to speak, and they're not going to let this thing go past them. If they can help it, or as you say, over my dead body. The California Indians used to set control burns, as distinct from wildfires, forestry terms, which contributed to the maintenance of what you might call a climax timber stand, keeping the undergrowth burnt out, keeping an annual deer-forage coming in, and protecting the large timber, as it were, from destructive forest fires, because whenever a forest fire--which is very common in California [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q99], it's an annual event--whenever forest fires go through, went through the forests when they were in that condition, it simply went through taking the ground cover off, but couldn't get hot enough or high enough to kill the large trees. With the advent of logging, mining, and the Manzanita brush that follows on that, the whole flora of California changed radically. All of the flora of California changed. What happened was that the woods got very brushy, and then the early forestry practices which were, of course, to put forest fires out whenever they came on them, in some ways contributed to the increasingly dangerous situation of dense brush, logging slash laying around, second-growth trees not really very large yet, and a situation where every brush fire that went through killed absolutely everything grew up. And that's the state of the state now, to a large extent, although there are some hip foresters now who are back into control burns as best as they can. This poem is called \\\"Control Burn\\\" and it only starts from what I'm just talking about, taking that as an image.\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:24:00\\nReads \\\"Control Burn\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:25:37\\nReads \\\"The Great Mother\\\" [published later in Turtle Island].\\n\\nEND\\n00:26:55\\n\",\"notes\":\"Gary Snyder reads poems later collected in Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974), originally published in a limited edition book called Manzanita (Four Seasons Press, 1972). He also reads one poem from Regarding Wave (Fulcrum Press, 1971), one poem from Coyote’s Journal #9 (1971), one poem from The Fudo Trilogy (Shaman Drum, 1973), and several from Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint) only published in 1997, as well as other poems from unknown sources. \\n\\nI006-11-106=AC.1\\n00:17- Introducer (Perhaps Richard Sommer) introduces Gary Snyder. [INDEX: semi mythological things, climbed mountains and traveled to India with Allen Ginsberg, Jack\\nKerouac’s book character, wilderness, living in precincts of Japanese Buddhist\\nmonasteries, keeping cultures from obliteration, poems out of the consciousness,\\nwindows, open world, window-maker].\\n02:58- Gary Snyder introduces the reading, and poetry cycle “Charms” and long poem\\n“Mountains and Rivers Without End”. [INDEX: reading in two sets, all poems read\\nare unpublished, long poem in-progress “Mountains and Rivers Without End”, returning\\nfrom Japan to the U.S. three years prior, wife and children, settling in the foothills of the\\nSierra Nevada, north slope of the south fork of the Yuba river, three-thousand foot\\nelevation, origins on a farm, miners in Leadville, Colorado, how to get back to father’s\\noccupation, childhood, grandfather, fences, as a child in nature, spring (river), American\\nfrontier, medieval Europeans, neolithic Mediterranean people, neolithic Japanese people, neolithic Chinese people, history, anthropology, biology, responsibility of humans’ place on earth, choices we make in terms of nature, scientific foresters, ecologists, American Indians (as teachers)].\\n08:02- Introduces poetry cycle “Charms”, and “Grace for Love”. [INDEX: debts, search for knowledge, grace (gratitude for meal), rancheria, Japanese Buddhist grace, love, level of validity in the Catholic Church’s objection to contraception, food, sacrament, act of love, transference of ‘seed’ or knowledge, transferral of merit, species-increase ritual; from unknown source].\\n11:09- Chants “Grace for Love”.\\n14:20- Reads “A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon, Washington”. [INDEX: from unknown source].\\n16:37- Explains last chorus of “A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon, Washington”.\\n16:43- Reads “I went into the Maverick Bar”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n18:25- Introduces “Anasazi”. [INDEX: means ‘ancient ones’ in Navajo, name of people living in Chaco Canyon, Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chelly, ancestors of present Pueblo people, 12th century, the great drought of the 13th century, civilization, two millennia of ‘deep experience’, written at Canyon de Chelly; from Turtle Island]\\n19:52- Reads “Anasazi”.\\n21:11- Introduces “The Way West Underground”. [INDEX: Canyon de Chelly, West and Great Basin, granite outcroppings of the northern shores of Lake Superior, petroglyphs,\\nAnthropologists, salvaging remnants of dying cultures, vocabulary of motifs, hand\\npetroglyph, caves of southern France and northern Spain, 40,000 years ago, intellectual\\npoem, tracing out lines of connections between Americans, American Indians, prehistoric ancestors, main impetus of the poem is an international mystery religion called the Bear Cult, runs from Finland to Utah, Siberia, central theme: girl who marries a bear; from Turtle Island].\\n25:12- Reads “The Way West Underground”.\\n26:55- Interjects comment about poem. [INDEX: Finnish men singing folk songs].\\n[*note: cut or edit made in transcript, time elapsed unknown*]\\n29:16- Snyder is talking (not sure if it’s about the poem). [INDEX: observation, plants, seeds, birds, small members of food chain, ocean, exuberance of sexuality, reproductive organs of grasses, wheat, rice, herring, cod, millions of eggs, food chain of the ocean].\\n30:11- Reads “The Song of the Taste”. [INDEX: from Regarding Wave].\\n31:46- Introduces “Song for the Raw Material”. [INDEX: food, natural vs. supermarket foods, vegetarian vs. carnivore, being part of the food chain, being eaten by a bear, biological ignorance of society, basic systems, chemicals, Tibetans and Parsis, Herodotus, Maghi in Persia, feeding dead to the vultures, Eskimo shaman quote].\\n35:07- Reads “Song of the Raw Material”. [INDEX: perhaps “Song to the Raw Material”,\\nunknown source].\\n36:07- Reads “Steak”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n37:48- Introduces “No matter, never mind”. [INDEX: Lethbridge, Alberta, creation mythology of Japan (koji-ki); from Turtle Island].\\n38:23- Reads “No matter, never mind”.\\n39:19- Introduces “The Bath”. [INDEX: no electricity (wood heating), Finnish sauna, poem as a sauna, Michigan, personae in the poem are his wife, three sons; from Turtle Island].\\n40:55- Reads “The Bath”.\\n46:26- Introduces “Front Lines”. [INDEX: evading the struggle; from Turtle Island].\\n46:54- Reads “Front Lines”.\\n48:31- Explains parts of “Front Lines”, introduces “Control Burn”. [INDEX: wilderness,\\nCalifornia ‘Indians’, control burns, forest fires in California, logging, mining, Manzanita\\nbrush, flora changing; from Turtle Island].\\n50:55- Reads “Control Burn”.\\n52:32- Reads “The Great Mother”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island].\\n\\nFIRST CD (I006-11-106=AC.1)\\nPoem Read:\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tTime Stamp\\tDuration (mins):\\n\\n“Grace for Love”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:11:09   \\t03:10\\n“A Curse on the Man in the Pentagon…” \\t00:14:20        02:17\\n“I went into the Maverick Bar…”  \\t\\t\\t00:16:23        01:42\\n“Anasazi”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:19:52        02:17\\n“The Way West Underground”  \\t\\t\\t00:25:12        04:01\\n“The Song of the Taste”  \\t\\t\\t\\t00:30:11        01:35\\n“Song for the Raw Material”  \\t\\t\\t00:35:07        00:58\\n“Steak”  \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:36:07        01:41\\n“No Matter, Never Mind”   \\t\\t\\t\\t00:38:23        00:46\\n“The Bath” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:40:55        05:29\\n“Front Lines” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:46:54        01:36\\n“Control Burn” \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t00:50:55        01:37\\n“The Great Mother”  \\t\\t\\t\\t00:52:32        00:42\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#2\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/gary_snyder_i006-11-106-3.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-3.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:30:59\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"74.4 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-3.mp3 [File 3 of 4]\\n\\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:00\\nEverything in this next poem is all true. Almost everything.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:17\\nReads \\\"The Call of the Wild\\\", Part I [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:32\\nReads \\\"The Call of the Wild\\\", Part II [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nAnnotation\\n00:01:52.06\\nReads \\\"The Call of the Wild,\\\" Part III [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:04:11\\nReads \\\"Source\\\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:05:40\\nIn the poem \\\"Charms\\\", which is dedicated to Michael McClure [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1390054], who has more than any other living poet, or person even that I know, has gone farther than anyone else, I think, into becoming one with, in understanding, in penetrating, in perceiving the consciousness of other beings.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:06:15\\nReads \\\"Charms\\\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nAudience\\n00:07:45\\nApplause. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:08:01\\nI want to read one little poem that kind of, that I just wrote on the plane the other day.  Flying in here yesterday I wrote this. And then we'll take a break. But this belongs, really, with these poems. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:08:15\\nReads \\\"How did a great red-tailed Hawk come to lie on the shoulder of Interstate 5\\\" [published later in Turtle Island]. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:10:05\\nOkay, let's take a break.  \\n\\nAudience\\n00:10:07\\nApplause.\\n\\nUnknown\\n00:10:17\\nAmbient Sound [voices].\\n \\nAudience Member 1\\n00:10:29\\nDo you remember getting tiny toys for your children from San Francisco [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62]? There was a small book that I saw in the States, folded out in a certain, section-by-section, parts of the earth kinda, growing larger and larger and larger...\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:10:46\\nI haven't seen it.\\n \\nAudience Member 1\\n00:10:48\\nNo, I guess...it's sort of, um, anti-war toys.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:10:51\\nSounds nice. Yeah. Some place in San Francisco you can get it?\\n \\nAudience Member 1\\n00:10:56\\nUm, I don't know, it was from a certain, a certain group of people, and I don't remember their names. It was beautiful. Nice gift to give little kids.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:07\\nI shall watch for it when I go there again. Thank you. \\n \\nAudience Member 1\\n00:11:13\\nOkay. You bet. [Inaudible]\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:14\\nOkay. [Laughter].\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:19\\nMan you're incredible. You're so good. I really dig your stuff.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:26\\n[Laughter]. Thank you.\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:26\\nI really dig it, will you come for a drink with me later? With me and my friends?\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:31\\nI gotta go some place later.\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:33\\nYou sure? \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:34\\nYeah. I mean, like I...they got something set up for me. \\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:38\\nI don't, I don't know, I really dig that, I really dig that [inaudible] I just came in, I thought your stuff was so incredible...Your stuff, the way you bring it across to people!\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:51\\nWell, that's what I try to do.\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:54\\nHave you written a book?\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:11:54\\nI've written a lot of books. [Laughter].\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:11:58\\nNo no no, no really, no really, I don't know too much about...Gary Snyder, you know?\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:12:04\\nWell, you'd probably find, I don't know, because I'm coming here, because of my being here now, they've probably got some of my books in the bookstore, if you want to go look. [Laughter].\\n \\nAudience Member 2\\n00:12:13\\nSee I'm writing this play right now, you know? I'm trying to express myself and it's really...it's really strange [Cut off abruptly].\\n \\nUnknown\\n00:12:27\\n[Cut or edit in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed].\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:12:28\\nWell, there has been a great deal of opposition to nuclear energy, and nuclear power-generating stations, in the United States so effective in some areas that a lot of generating plants have been blocked or slowed down in their construction. And I think that the United States government is about to launch on an enormous effort to calm the public and to lull it into accepting massive developments of nuclear energy generating centres, fast-breeder and later, perhaps, fusion. Now I myself would have no objection to such a thing if I could be convinced that it was safe, both in the long term and the short term, and although it might be conceivably safe in the short term, I can see no way in which it would be safe in the long run, because nuclear wastes accumulated over, say, several centuries, as they might be, or more, in increasing quantities around the globe, are going to out eventually, and even though you can say, well, we're putting it off for five hundred thousand years, five hundred thousand years is not a very long time.  And if we are feeding a wasteful, industrial, technological, consumer society for a few more centuries, buying it a few more centuries of life, at the expense of all future biological health on the planet, it's obviously not worth it. The Amchitka test, which is possibly interested in such things as what uses very large explosions would have in releasing oil from oil-bearing shale or something like that, I think the U.S. administration is going ahead with this test in the face of all this criticism, deliberately, as a deliberate and very intelligent gamble. The chances are that nothing will happen. When nothing happens, then they will be able to say, \\\"All you people were hysterical. You see?  Nothing happened\\\".  And that will buy them a lot of time and a lot of credibility to proceed strongly and forcibly with more nuclear testing and more nuclear power generation development. And the conservationists, perhaps, have in a way, played into their hands, by making such a big issue out of it, so that they will be left holding an empty bag if nothing happens. If something does happen, then the administration can say, \\\"You're right, we were wrong\\\", and Nixon [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9588] perhaps forfeits the next election. That's all. Okay. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:15:25.61\\n\\\"Mountains and Rivers Without End\\\" is a poem that I've been working on, it's a long poem, a long series of interconnected long poems that I've been working on for some years. I'm going to read several sections from that tonight. Including one or two that are very recent, in fact these are all pretty recent. \\\"Mountains and Rivers without End\\\". The title of the poem comes from a Yuan Dynasty [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7313] Chinese scroll, that unfolds sideways and is thirty-five feet long. By way of introduction, a little poem called \\\"The Rabbit\\\". There are many sections to this, I'm only going to read [counts under breath.]..six tonight.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:16:27\\nReads \\\"The Rabbit\\\" [published later in Mountains and Rivers Without End].\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:18:04\\n\\\"The California Water Plan\\\". The state of California at the moment is engaged in a large, incredibly wasteful, incredibly stupid, illegal, even by their own terms, water plan project, which if they're lucky, will salinate the Sacramento Valley [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1686914] and make agriculture permanently impossible. I was up in the Minarets [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2412852] in the Sierra last summer, thinking about the California Water Plan [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28228216], and I perceived something of what the true California Water Plan was. So I wrote this down. It refers to an obscure little Buddhist god called Fudo, or Achala [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q337624], who is my particular guardian, my personal guardian and my personal teacher, and, so I use, I refer to him, in several poems. The other two poems in which I refer to him actually are a piece called \\\"Smokey the Bear Sutra\\\", and another piece called \\\"Spell Against Demons\\\". This is the final, actually, this is the third and final poem in the trilogy of Fudo poems. Also. But you'll find all about Fudo in this poem, it'll drive you crazy.    \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:19:48\\nReads \\\"The California Water Plan\\\" [later published in The Fudo Trilogy].\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:25:34\\n\\\"Kumarajiva's Mother\\\". Now, the rest of these poems that I'm going to read this evening are cutting back and forth between ancient India [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q668] and ancient North America. I--living as I do and where I have lived all my life, we face the Pacific [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q98]. And, the American Indian came from Asia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q48], or vice versa, the Asians came from North America. I mean I know a Shoshone who says that. He says, \\\"We've always been here, those Asians came from here\\\". [Laughter].  \\\"What do you mean we came from someplace else, that's some white anthropologist theory\\\". [Laughter]. \\\"Kumarajiva's Mother.\\\" Kumarajiva [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q335293] was a great Buddhist monk-scholar-translator, who was kidnapped by the Chinese from Central Asia, by force, and carried off to China [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q148] where he was made to translate Sanskrit Buddhist texts into Chinese, and he stayed there the rest of his life, with a crew of about eighty Chinese assistants, day and night, translating sutras. He did a lot of translation. He also got in trouble, because he liked girls, and on one occasion, because he actually had mistresses apparently, he ate a bowl of needles, like you sew with needles, in front of an assembly of all the monks and assistants in Peking [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q956], or no it wasn't Peking in those days, it was Chang'an [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6501000], all of the monks and assistants in the capital, Chang'an, and then he said, \\\"When you boys can eat needles, you can have girlfriends too\\\". [Audience laughter]. But this poem is about his mother. [Audience laughter]. And I really, I mean I could explain to you why I wrote this poem but it isn't really worth explaining, I'll just read it. It has to do partly with the fact that my mother has freckles. And I was trying to figure out at this time, when I wrote this, I was trying to figure out whatever happened to women in Buddhism? Like something happened to 'em. They got lost. For a long time, anyway.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:28:22\\nReads \\\"Kumarajiva's Mother\\\".\\n \\nEND\\n00:30:59\\n\",\"notes\":\"I006-11-106=AC.2\\n00:02- Gary Snyder introduces “The Call of the Wild”. [INDEX: true; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n00:17- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part I.\\n00:32- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part II.\\n01:52- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part III.\\n04:11- Reads “Source”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n05:40- Introduces “Charms”. [INDEX: dedicated to Michael McClure, consciousness of other beings; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n06:15- Reads “Charms”.\\n08:01- Introduces “The Dead by the Side of the Road” [INDEX: wrote on the plane the        previous day; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974)]\\n08:15- Reads “The Dead by the Side of the Road”.\\n09:55- Break is taken, audience member #1 asks question. [INDEX: suggests small anti-war children’s toys.]\\n11:26- Audience member #2 asks question (part is cut). [INDEX: books, bookstore, writing play]\\n12:21- Gary Snyder speaks about opposition to nuclear energy. [INDEX: nuclear energy, nuclear power-generating stations, U.S. government, energy generating centres, industrial technological consumer society, expense on the future biological health of the planet, Amchitka test, oil-bearing shale, conservationists, Nixon, election.]\\n15:25- Introduces “Mountains and Rivers Without End” and “The Rabbit”. [INDEX: long \\tpoem, inter-connected long poems, reading several sections from it, title from Yuan     \\tDynasty Chinese scroll, little poem called “The Rabbit”, many sections- only reading 6;   \\tperhaps published as “Jackrabbit”, published much later in Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint, 1997).]\\n16:27- Reads “The Rabbit”.\\n18:04- Introduces “The California Water Plan”. [INDEX: state of California, water plan      project, salinate the Sacramento Valley and make the Sacramento Valley agriculturally  \\tdead, Minarets in the Sierra, Buddhist god called Fudo or Achala, personal guardian or    teacher, other two poems that reference Buddhist god: “Smokey the Bear Sutra” and “Spell Against Demons”, third poem in trilogy of Fudo poems; from The Fudo Trilogy      \\t(Shaman Drum, 1973).]\\n19:48- Reads “The California Water Plan”.\\n25:34- Introduces “Kumarajiva’s Mother”. [INDEX: rest of poems read are from ancient India and ancient North America, Pacific Ocean, American Indians from Asia or vice versa, Shoshone, white anthropologist theory, Kumarajiva was Buddhist monk-scholar-  \\ttranslator, Central Asia, China, translated Sanskrit Buddhist texts to Chinese, translating sutras, Peking (or Chang’an), Snyder’s mother, women in Buddhism; from unknown         source.]\\n28:22- Reads “Kumarajiva’s Mother”.\\n30:59- CUT made in tape, Snyder begins mid-sentence, introduces “The Humpbacked Flute Player”. [INDEX: 8th century, Mahayana university called NAllenda, China, Buddhism, school of the Mind Only, the school of Emptiness, two aspects of the poem, American Indian petroglyph figure of a hump-backed flute player, Sonora, Mexico, Great Basin, The Ghost Dance (Messianic Indian Religion started by a Paiute named Wovoka), oldest living beings are the bristle-coned pine, White Mountains, California; published in Coyote’s Journal 9 (1971) and in Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint, 1997).]\\n32:59- Reads “The Humpbacked Flute Player”.\\n39:36- Introduces “Down”. [INDEX: ordering of poems; from unknown source.]\\n40:05- Reads “Down”.\\n43:18- Introducer Richard Sommer thanks Gary Snyder, announces Charles Simic’s     \\treading. [INDEX: Charles Simic, November 19th, 1971.]\\n \\nSECOND CD (I006-11-106=AC.2) \\nPoems Read                                   \\t\\t\\t\\tTime Stamp:  Duration:\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part I                                          \\t00:00:17      \\t00:16\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part II                                         \\t00:00:32      \\t01:17\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part III                                        \\t00:01:52      \\t02:15\\n“Source”                                                                             \\t00:04:11      \\t01:27\\n“Charms”                                                                            \\t00:06:15      \\t01:29\\n“The Dead by the Side of the Road”                                  \\t00:08:15      \\t01:40\\n“The Rabbit”                                                                       \\t00:16:27      \\t01:35\\n“The California Water Plan”                                  \\t        \\t00:19:48      \\t05:45\\n“Kumurajiva’s Mother”      \\t                                            \\t00:28:22      \\t02:36\\n“The Hump-Backed Flute Player”                                     \\t00:32:59      \\t06:34\\n“Down”                                                                               \\t00:40:05      \\t02:42\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#3\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/gary_snyder_i006-11-106-4.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-4.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:12:45\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"30.6 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"gary_snyder_i006-11-106-4.mp3 [File 4 of 4]\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:00:00\\n...alone in the 8th century, and studied at an enormous Buddhist, Mahayana university called Nalanda [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q216243], for fifteen years, and then walked back to China, with a fraying pack full of books, which he translated for the next twenty years after he got back to China. He brought the school of Buddhism, which is called the school of Mind Only, and the school of Emptiness. That's one aspect of this next poem. Another aspect is a little petroglyph, American Indian petroglyph figure, called the hump-backed flute player, a little stick figure playing the flute, with a pack on his back, walking. He was found pecked on the rocks from Sonora [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q46422], Mexico [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q96] up into the Great Basin, and about which almost nothing is known. The Ghost Dance, which was a Messianic Indian religion, started by a Paiute named Wovoka https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q558420], which asserted that perhaps by magic the white man could be swept away from North America and the game would return.  And finally, the oldest living beings are the bristle-coned pine, who live in the White Mountains [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1556007], at an elevation of nine thousand feet in eastern California, the oldest of which is something like four thousand five hundred years old. So this poem is called \\\"The Humpbacked Flute Player\\\".\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:01:59\\nReads \\\"The Humpbacked Flute Player\\\" from Coyote’s Journal #9 [and published later in Mountains and Rivers Without End]. \\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:08:36\\nI'm going to finish with one more poem called \\\"Down\\\". These poems are not in the order that they're going to be, but they're in a convenient order for the moment.\\n \\nGary Snyder\\n00:09:05\\nReads \\\"Down\\\".\\n \\nAudience\\n00:11:48\\nApplause.\\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:12:18\\nI can't thank you for that. I don't know any way. Charles Simic [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q722555] will be reading on November 19th. Thank you. \\n\\nAudience\\n00:12:40 \\nApplause.\\n\\nEND\\n00:12:45\\n\",\"notes\":\"I006-11-106=AC.2\\n00:02- Gary Snyder introduces “The Call of the Wild”. [INDEX: true; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n00:17- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part I.\\n00:32- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part II.\\n01:52- Reads “The Call of the Wild”, Part III.\\n04:11- Reads “Source”. [INDEX: from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n05:40- Introduces “Charms”. [INDEX: dedicated to Michael McClure, consciousness of other beings; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974).]\\n06:15- Reads “Charms”.\\n08:01- Introduces “The Dead by the Side of the Road” [INDEX: wrote on the plane the        previous day; from Turtle Island (New Directions, 1974)]\\n08:15- Reads “The Dead by the Side of the Road”.\\n09:55- Break is taken, audience member #1 asks question. [INDEX: suggests small anti-war children’s toys.]\\n11:26- Audience member #2 asks question (part is cut). [INDEX: books, bookstore, writing play]\\n12:21- Gary Snyder speaks about opposition to nuclear energy. [INDEX: nuclear energy, nuclear power-generating stations, U.S. government, energy generating centres, industrial technological consumer society, expense on the future biological health of the planet, Amchitka test, oil-bearing shale, conservationists, Nixon, election.]\\n15:25- Introduces “Mountains and Rivers Without End” and “The Rabbit”. [INDEX: long \\tpoem, inter-connected long poems, reading several sections from it, title from Yuan     \\tDynasty Chinese scroll, little poem called “The Rabbit”, many sections- only reading 6;   \\tperhaps published as “Jackrabbit”, published much later in Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint, 1997).]\\n16:27- Reads “The Rabbit”.\\n18:04- Introduces “The California Water Plan”. [INDEX: state of California, water plan      project, salinate the Sacramento Valley and make the Sacramento Valley agriculturally  \\tdead, Minarets in the Sierra, Buddhist god called Fudo or Achala, personal guardian or    teacher, other two poems that reference Buddhist god: “Smokey the Bear Sutra” and “Spell Against Demons”, third poem in trilogy of Fudo poems; from The Fudo Trilogy      \\t(Shaman Drum, 1973).]\\n19:48- Reads “The California Water Plan”.\\n25:34- Introduces “Kumarajiva’s Mother”. [INDEX: rest of poems read are from ancient India and ancient North America, Pacific Ocean, American Indians from Asia or vice versa, Shoshone, white anthropologist theory, Kumarajiva was Buddhist monk-scholar-  \\ttranslator, Central Asia, China, translated Sanskrit Buddhist texts to Chinese, translating sutras, Peking (or Chang’an), Snyder’s mother, women in Buddhism; from unknown         source.]\\n28:22- Reads “Kumarajiva’s Mother”.\\n30:59- CUT made in tape, Snyder begins mid-sentence, introduces “The Humpbacked Flute Player”. [INDEX: 8th century, Mahayana university called NAllenda, China, Buddhism, school of the Mind Only, the school of Emptiness, two aspects of the poem, American Indian petroglyph figure of a hump-backed flute player, Sonora, Mexico, Great Basin, The Ghost Dance (Messianic Indian Religion started by a Paiute named Wovoka), oldest living beings are the bristle-coned pine, White Mountains, California; published in Coyote’s Journal 9 (1971) and in Mountains and Rivers Without End (Counterpoint, 1997).]\\n32:59- Reads “The Humpbacked Flute Player”.\\n39:36- Introduces “Down”. [INDEX: ordering of poems; from unknown source.]\\n40:05- Reads “Down”.\\n43:18- Introducer Richard Sommer thanks Gary Snyder, announces Charles Simic’s     \\treading. [INDEX: Charles Simic, November 19th, 1971.]\\n \\nSECOND CD (I006-11-106=AC.2) \\nPoems Read                                   \\t\\t\\t\\tTime Stamp:  Duration:\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part I                                          \\t00:00:17      \\t00:16\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part II                                         \\t00:00:32      \\t01:17\\n“The Call of the Wild” – Part III                                        \\t00:01:52      \\t02:15\\n“Source”                                                                             \\t00:04:11      \\t01:27\\n“Charms”                                                                            \\t00:06:15      \\t01:29\\n“The Dead by the Side of the Road”                                  \\t00:08:15      \\t01:40\\n“The Rabbit”                                                                       \\t00:16:27      \\t01:35\\n“The California Water Plan”                                  \\t        \\t00:19:48      \\t05:45\\n“Kumurajiva’s Mother”      \\t                                            \\t00:28:22      \\t02:36\\n“The Hump-Backed Flute Player”                                     \\t00:32:59      \\t06:34\\n“Down”                                                                               \\t00:40:05      \\t02:42\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/gary-snyder-at-sgwu-1971/#4\"}]"],"score":3.6228101},{"id":"1298","cataloger_name":["Masoumeh,Zaare"],"partnerInstitution":["Concordia University"],"collection_source_collection":["SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds"],"source_collection_label":["SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds"],"collection_contributing_unit":["Records Management and Archives"],"source_collection_uri":[""],"collection_image_url":[""],"collection_source_collection_description":["The fonds consists of some administrative records of the SGWU Department of English and the Concordia Department of English between 1971 and 2000. It also consists of some SGWU Department of English records related to student academic activities in the 1940s and to public readings and lectures, and a few interviews, produced between 1966 and 1972. The fonds mainly includes minutes of departmental meetings and some course timetables. It also includes some student papers in bound volumes and 63 sound recordings (80 audio reels) mainly composed of poetry readings (see the Concordia SpokenWeb project which uses this material) but also a few lectures given at SGWU. There are also loose typed sheets describing some of the SGWU poetry readings."],"collection_source_collection_id":["I086"],"persistent_url":["http://archives.concordia.ca/I086"],"item_title":["Maxine Gadd and Andreas Schroeder at Sir George Williams University, The Poetry Series, 18 February 1972"],"item_title_source":["Cataloguer"],"item_title_note":["\"SCHROEDER & GADD 1/4 I006-11-109.1\" written on the spine of the tape's box. SCHROEDER & GADD refers to Andreas Schroeder and Maxine Gadd. \"I006-11-109.1\" written on sticker on the reel. \"POETRY 6 TAPE #1 OF 4 SCHROEDER & GADD 2-72-012-6 3 3/4 ips MASTER\" written on the front of the tape's box.\n\n\"SCHROEDER & GADD 2/4 I006-11-109.2\" written on the spine of the tape's box. SCHROEDER & GADD refers to Andreas Schroeder and Maxine Gadd. \"I006-11-109.2\" written on sticker on the reel. \"POETRY 6 TAPE #2 OF 4 SCHROEDER & GADD 2-72-012-6 3 3/4 ips MASTER #2\" written on the front of the tape's box.\n\n'SCHROEDER & GADD 3/4 I006-11-109.3\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. SCHROEDER & GADD refers to Andreas Schroeder and Maxine Gadd. \"I006-11-109.3\" written on sticker on the reel. \"POETRY 6 TAPE #3 OF 4 SCHROEDER & GADD 2-72-012-6 3 3/4 ips MASTER #3\" written on the front of the tape's box.\n\n\"SCHROEDER & GADD 4/4 I006-11-109.4\" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. SCHROEDER & GADD refers to Andreas Schroeder and Maxine Gadd. \"I006-11-109.4\" written on sticker on the reel. \"POETRY 6 TAPE #4 OF 4 SCHROEDER & GADD 2-72-012-6 3 3/4 ips MASTER #4\" written on the front of the tape's box."],"item_language":["English"],"item_production_context":["Documentary recording"],"item_series_title":["The Poetry Series"],"item_subseries_title":["Poetry 6"],"item_identifiers":["[I006-11-109.1, I006-11-109.2, I006-11-109.3, I006-11-109.4]"],"creator_names":["Gadd, Maxine","Schroeder, Andreas"],"creator_names_search":["Gadd, Maxine","Schroeder, Andreas"],"creators":["[{\"url\":\"http://viaf.org/viaf/75225856\",\"name\":\"Gadd, Maxine\",\"dates\":\"1940-\",\"notes\":\"Canadian poet Maxine Gadd was born in London, England in 1940, but moved to the West Coast as a young child in 1946. Gadd attended the University of British Columbia and published her poetry with the UBC journal The Raven. Gadd was married and had a baby by the time she graduated with her B.A. She spent some time in California with her child, then she returned to Vancouver. Gadd reunited with the poetry scene and met bill bissett. Her first collection of poetry, Guns of the West was published by bill bissett’s blewointment press in 1967, and was followed by Practical Knowledge (Intermedia, 1969). Gadd was a founding member of Vancouver’s Intermedia as well as being involved with the Poetry Front. She then published a series of chapbooks, hochelaga (blewointment press, 1970), air two (Air Press, 1971), Westerns (Air Press, 1975), and Fire in the Cove (mother tongue Press, 2001). Gadd lived in a commune on Galiano Island until 1984, when she moved back to Vancouver and was associated with the Kootenay School of Writing. In 1982, Daphne Marlatt and Ingrid Klassen published through Coach House Press Gadd’s Lost language: selected poems. Most recently, Gadd published Backup to Babylon: poems, 1972-1987 (New Star Books, 2006), which was nominated by the BC Book Prize and Subway Under Byzantium: Poems, 1988-1996 (New Star Books, 2008). An excerpt from “Mazine Meets Proteus in Gastown” from Backup to Babylon was part of Vancouver’s ‘Poetry in Transit’ project in 2007, and was shown on Vancouver busses.\",\"nation\":[],\"role\":[\"Author\",\"Performer\"]},{\"url\":\"http://viaf.org/viaf/57773869\",\"name\":\"Schroeder, Andreas\",\"dates\":\"1946-\",\"notes\":\"Andreas Schroeder was born in 1946 in Hoheneggelsen, Germany before his family immigrated to Canada in 1951. Schroeder grew up on a farm in the Fraser Valley in B.C., until he was fifteen when his family moved to Vancouver. He enrolled in the University of British Columbia’s creative writing program where he studied under Michael Bullock and J. Michael Yates and received his B.A. in 1969. He founded and edited The Journal of Contemporary Literature in Translation (1968-80) and worked as a columnist for the Vancouver Province (1968-73). Schroeder’s first collections of poetry were The ozone minotaur (Sono Nis Press, 1969) and File of uncertainties (Sono Nis Press, 1971), a collection of concrete poetry UNIverse (MassAge Press, 1971) and a collection of short stories, The late man (Sono Nis Press, 1972). Schroeder completed his M.A. in 1972 from the University of British Columbia, and began teaching creative writing at the University of Victoria from 1974-1975. Schroeder was the chair of the Writer’s Union of Canada between 1976-1977. His most popular book was Shaking it rough (Doubleday, 1976), and he has published over twenty books in poetry, fiction, non-fiction, radio drama, journalism, translation and criticism. Schroeder then taught at the University of British Columbia (1985-7) and at Simon Fraser University (1989-90), publishing The Mennonites: a pictorial history of their lives in Canada (Douglas & McIntyre, 1990), Carved from wood: Mission, B.C. 1891-1992 (Mission Foundation, 1991) and Scams, scandals and scullduggery (M & S, 1996). Schroeder worked as the “resident crookologist” or “resident Scam-meister” on the CBC Radio show Basic Black, which produced a few collections of history’s greatest scams, including a children’s book, Scams! (Annick Press, 2004). His most recent publication is Renovating Heaven (Ooolichan, 2008), and he continues to teach and write in B.C.\",\"nation\":[],\"role\":[\"Author\",\"Performer\"]}]"],"contributors_names":["Sommer, Richard"],"contributors_names_search":["Sommer, Richard"],"contributors":["[{\"url\":\"\",\"name\":\"Sommer, Richard\",\"dates\":\"1934-2012\",\"notes\":\"\",\"nation\":[],\"role\":[\"Presenter\",\"Series organizer\"]}]"],"Presenter_name":["Sommer, Richard"],"Series_organizer_name":["Sommer, Richard"],"Performance_Date":[1972],"material_description":["[{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"Master\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Mono\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Good\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Mono\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Good\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Mono\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Good\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"},{\"side\":\"\",\"image\":\"\",\"other\":\"\",\"extent\":\"1/4 inch\",\"AV_types\":\"Audio\",\"tape_brand\":\"Scotch\",\"generations\":\"\",\"Conservation\":\"\",\"equalization\":\"\",\"playback_mode\":\"Mono\",\"playing_speed\":\"3 3/4 ips\",\"sound_quality\":\"Good\",\"recording_type\":\"Analogue\",\"storage_capacity\":\"\",\"physical_condition\":\"\",\"track_configuration\":\"\",\"material_designation\":\"Reel to Reel\",\"physical_composition\":\"Magnetic Tape\",\"accompanying_material\":\"\",\"other_physical_description\":\"\"}]"],"material_designations":["Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel","Reel to Reel"],"physical_compositions":["Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape","Magnetic Tape"],"recording_type":["Analogue","Analogue","Analogue","Analogue"],"AV_type":["Audio","Audio","Audio","Audio"],"playback_mode":["Mono","Mono","Mono","Mono"],"Dates":["[{\"date\":\"1972 2 18\",\"type\":\"Performance Date\",\"notes\":\"Date specified in written announcement \\\"Georgian Happenings\\\"\",\"source\":\"Supplemental Material\"}]"],"Location":["[{\"url\":\"https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22080570\",\"venue\":\"Hall Building Room H-651\",\"notes\":\"Location specified in written announcement \\\"Georgian Happenings\\\"\",\"address\":\"1455, Boul de Maisonneuve Ouest, Montreal, Quebec, Canada\",\"latitude\":\"45.4972758\",\"longitude\":\"-73.57893043\"}]"],"Address":["1455, Boul de Maisonneuve Ouest, Montreal, Quebec, Canada"],"Venue":["Hall Building Room H-651"],"City":["Montreal, Quebec"],"content_notes":["Maxine Gadd reads several poems that were later collected in Lost Language (Coach House Press, 1982), one poem from air two (Air, 1971), but it is likely that many other poems went unpublished. Andreas Schroeder reads from The Late Man (SonoNis Press, 1971), The Ozone Minotaur (SoNoNis Press, 1969) and File of Uncertainties (SoNoNis Press, 1971)."],"contents":["maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-1.mp3 [File 1 of 4]\n \nRichard (Dick)  Sommer\n00:00:00\nI'd like to introduce you to two poets who are Vancouver [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q24639] friends of mine. Their poetry is quite different, as you'll discover. But from my own point of view, they...I owe both of them a debt that is similar in both cases though neither probably knows it. They've made me, in their own ways, rethink my own feelings about  what ought to constitute poetry and poems. And in the case of Maxine Gadd, this thinking went into a review which was then sent to the Firepoint which then folded. So you may never see that. And in the case of Andy Schroeder [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4755619], found its way into a long tape harangue between the two of us on the subject of form in poetry. Which I think is now in the Sir George Williams Library [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5159005], where any of you can endure it if you wish to. At any rate, the first of these poets to read will be Maxine Gadd. There will be a fifteen minute break, and then Andreas Schroeder will read. Maxine. \n \nAudience\n00:01:32\nApplause. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:02:01\nYou're plugged in. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:02:03\nOh boy. Can you hear me? I don't know how much projection to do. I don't know how much to talk about the poetry. My connection is very loose to the mainstream I guess, because, I don't know, I'm just not socially related to what's going on maybe in the poetry reading. I guess my identifications with words are somewhat with a West Coast hippie trip. And between the country and the city, the first feeling being, you know, the desire for purity, you know when you're seventeen or eighteen years old and you've figured the country life is it. And later coming to realize the necessity of the communal life and the city. So I think that's a task I'm going to try to set myself right here. I...this...I'm going to read first of all the second \"well\" poem, which I did, experienced in the country, living in the country. I remember the first \"well\" poem, I don't remember where it's gone, because it didn't get published. I disregarded its importance, you know. I tended to take the judgment of editors, and you know, people that set themselves up as authorities, and that's why I'm here, you know. I've kept close enough to them, I guess. I remember the first one went something like, \"Wanting pure water I went to the well/too wonderful\"...and there was something about the oracle as the bucket clacked. This is the “Second Well Poem”. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:03:57\nReads \"Second Well Poem\" [published later as “Well poem” in Lost Language].\n\nMaxine Gadd\n00:04:41\nWhich is about where I feel right now. But that's about where my connection to poetry is right now. I wonder if that...I wonder if that one's around. I don't think it is. I guess I'll just take it as it comes. There's some scheme in this. I guess, I got published by a cat, by bill bissett [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4911496] you might have heard, who did the thing, did the guru thing, the super-energy thing of getting a lot of work done, and getting a lot of people's work out, and a lot of his work out, a lot of it was real shit but he got it out, you know, and some of it worked and some of it didn't, but there was so much of it, you know...I'd like to have had that confidence, you know, I guess almost, most people write poetry, they've got it all in their trunk, you know, they don't get it out. But I guess that's what it takes. This is from one of his first, really cheap magazines. He put, he...it's typed, you know. Pretty good typing. His typing got worse, I get very angry, he makes lots of mistakes. But he did a lot of drawings and things, if anybody wants to look at it, you know.  I mean, he did it minimum, you know, he was living really poor. And a lot of people still read his stuff, so, I mean, to me he was a folk poet in that sense, a lot of people still read his stuff because he got the stuff out cheap, you know. \"Trip\".\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:06:05\nReads \"Trip\".\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:07:47\nI'm going to go over there. This one is to a poet who is in the, is in another world, okay? He looks like a silver lizard, and he's very beautiful, and he knows all about the Greek trip, and Eleusis, which is one's talking about in the first poem, okay, the oracles from under the ground, that belief you must start out with. It's called...and it's admiration, as well as a bit of terror.\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:08:22\nReads unnamed poem. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:10:19\nLeary, I should have mentioned, was Timothy Leary. Oh, I should have explained that before, yeah. Oh yeah, this is where I met...now I don't like it okay? And it's probably not a good poem. But that's, that's...you know, that's...the kind of art form I'd like to have seen as a collective art form, was what I yearned and hoped for. Poetry is what people write in rooms alone, and I don't like...I don't, you know, that's what I was stuck with. And I worked for a while with a group in Vancouver called, named, we called it \"Intermedia\". And I had the experience of working with a group, at one point there were five of us poets, you know, or what we called poets. And we'd go around to various places, we went to Edmonton [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2096] one time, and we tried things, we tried chanting and wailing, like, was it...who was that crazy old lady. Sitwell, Edith Sitwell [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q259921], remember her? And if you ever heard the sort of sing, the song, sing sing she used to do, you know, we tried that. And it really worked, you know, but you'd go around and you'd say, \"Do you dig the poems?\" and they'd say, \"I can't hear them, but we really like your voice.\" You know. [Audience laughter]. So, you know, left that, you got an ache in the gut or something.   \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:11:37\nReads \"Ratio\".\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:12:48\nI don't like it. I don't want to be there. Here's one from last year. I got into printing stuff myself, you know, and I do that--I wish, oh, you can't see it, can you? It was mimeograph, it was real cheap, you know? And you could take images, you could take newspaper articles, you could take scraps of anything you saw that you dug, you know, put 'em together, and to me that was a, that was a form of concrete poetry. Can't, of course, I don't know, you couldn't really say that one or any number of them. This one is half-said, okay. Behind it I put a map, I found a map of B.C. [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1974]and Minster Island [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21906024] was a map, was an island I found once when I was working on a ship as a mess girl, on a freighter. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:13:46\nReads unnamed poem.\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:15:33\nAnd where that ended up was just over the name Bella Coola [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q815765], which is sort of where they do, can fish. There's no escape, though, you know? And...so then I want to read about Kitsilano [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4179275], where most of...I happened, you know, I grew up. Kitsilano's a sort of slum district of Vancouver. And it's disintegrating, and you probably all experienced this, you know, being city people, you know, they're bulldozing the places, there's no more cheap places to live, and so your friends, you know, you can't live there anymore, your friends can't live there anymore, so whatever you had, which was sometimes very heavy, you know, community's really beautiful, you know? I used to go over and play music with my friends. We had to move out, you know, because the city's being destroyed, and only the people who are well-to-do, who have some sort of stake in the city, you know, who are supporting the structure can stay. And this poem is about somebody who I met one day on the street, you know, and her story, she's sort of sick, just on the street, everything's falling to pieces. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:16:55\nReads “bee-people on 4th avenue” [published later in Lost Language].\n\nMaxine Gadd\n00:18:32\nWho's singing out there? But here, on the next street, you know, I ran into a friend of mine. Her name's Martina. And, you know, we're about the same age, and we've been through a lot of things, and, we've been through some bad things, you know, lots of rejections and refusal, no, there's no food now, you can't have any, go away, you know, fighting over somebody or other. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:18:58\nReads “4th ave” [published later in Lost Language].\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:20:49\nUs old ladies. Okay, but that's not entirely true. I got involved into all that magic stuff, you know, the Sufis, and into politics, and like this summer I hope I'm going to start some sort of woman's centre, back where I live, you know. \n \nEND\n00:21:09\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\n\nmaxine_gadd_i006-11-109-2.mp3 [File 2 of 4]\n\nMaxine Gadd\n00:00:00\nReads unnamed poem [recording begins abruptly].\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:02:20\nReads unnamed poem.\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:11:10\nThis is the thing that the guy that held onto the raft for fourteen days knew. This is what Armstrong [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1615], Collins [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q104859] and Reilley [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q739214] out there, those astronauts, this is what they saved up for. It had to be good. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:11:29\nReads unnamed poem.\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:23:31\nThat's the end of that one. \n \nAudience\n00:23:33\nApplause.\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:23:40\nI think I made enough noise for a while, huh? My voice is getting sort of sore, or, you know, like that was a trip, so. I got a lot of poems, but...Did you feel like reading now or should we have a break or what? Do you think...do you think we should read some more or what? I got...You want to read some more? \n \nUnknown\n00:23:59\nAmbient Sound [voices].\n\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:24:03\nDo you want to read some more? \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:04\nI don't know. I've not nothing in particular form, just bits, that's the problem. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:24:12\nYou can't do the one on the Goat-god....\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:13\nOkay, I'll do the Goat-god. Well okay, do you want to try improvising to a trip that's here? I'll let you read it. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:24:22\nSeriously, I'll do that? \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:23\nYeah. It's just going to be some sounds. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:24:24\nOkay. I don't know if I can…[unintelligible].\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:27\nI gotta find it first. What's that? Are we on? Oh, sorry. God. \n \nUnknown\n00:24:38\nAmbient Sound [voices].\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:39\nWhat? The flute? I think it's over there. For fun...the same message...I'm asking...Richard's going to make some noise with my flute. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:24:55\nI'll make some noise if you'll give me a microphone. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:24:57\nOkay. Which one do you want? Let's share it. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:01\nGive me the [unintelligible].\n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:25:02\nIt goes with the poem. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:05\nWhen'd you do that? \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:25:06\nWhat?\n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:07\nThis, this knot. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:25:08\nI tied myself into it. \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:11\nOh, here we go. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:25:12\nI don't even know if I can find it. All these little pieces, pieces, pieces. Oh, here it is. Now how it goes, you have to keep quiet until...let's see now. He's never done this before.  \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:40\nWhat did, yeah, what do you want me to do with it? \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:25:42\nOkay, this is called \"Shore Animals\" and it's a speech piece with flute, and the flute has to listen. It can speak too. [Laughter]. You have to listen to it. You never heard it\n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:25:57\nI think it's learning how to speak. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:26:01\nIt's called \"Shore Animals,\" it's a speech piece with flute. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:26:07\nReads \"Shore Animals\" accompanied by Richard Sommer on flute.\n \nAudience\n00:30:13\nAudience.\n\nMaxine Gadd\n00:30:15\nMaybe I'll try to try that one…[audience applause continues throughout].\n\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:30:24\nI'll give you your microphone back. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:30:25\nYes. How many minutes we got? \n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:30:29\nI don't know. [Unintelligible]. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:30:35\nOkay, I'm going to read, I'm going to do, this one's totally mindless, okay? It's dedicated to my friend Gerry Gilbert [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5552756] who used to like to do those trips. And you can go to sleep or something, because that's what I want you to do. \n \nMaxine Gadd\n00:30:51\nReads \"Cantaloup, 29 cents\".\n \nAudience\n00:38:33\nApplause. \n \nEND\n00:38:37\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\n\nandreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-3.mp3 [File 3 of 4]\n \nRichard (Dick) Sommer\n00:00:01\nOkay, we won't be using a flute this time, I think it's a bass trombone but I'm not sure.  It'll be up to Andy. I'd like to introduce to you Andy Schroeder.\n \nAudience\n00:00:15\nApplause.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:00:40\nRight. Normally they hang you after a reading. Jesus. I'm going to read from, oh, just kind of a merry jaunt through various books. I think what I'll do is I'll read some of the, some poetry first, and then I'll slip over into fiction. I've just, two days ago, published a book called The Late Man of short fictions and extended prose poems and so on. The work that I've done is gone cyclic in terms of form. I started out with prose poems and went into much more of a linear poetry, and then went back to a fiction which was kind of a half prose poem, half short story, half God knows, film script. And right now I'm working hard at both styles. First book I published was called The Ozone Minotaur, and it was more surreal than anything I'm doing now. I really get very excited about illusions, and I guess that's probably what most of my work is all about. At first I was very interested in surreal illusions; now I'm very interested in real illusions, and I'm not sure there's any difference. Here's a prose poem from way back called \"Introduction\".\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:02:10\nReads \"Introduction\" from The Ozone Minotaur.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:03:15\nAfter I found out that you couldn't live by writing poetry, I took a job with CPAir [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q986941]. That doesn't really sound like a very logical progression, but anyway, it was a teletype machine that they put me on, I think I lasted about four days, but I got a poem out of it, and it's entitled \"Cables\".\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:03:35\nReads \"Cables\" [from The Ozone Minotaur].\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:05:29\nThis next book, File of Uncertainties, I supposed was kind of created when I woke up one morning and was overwhelmed with my own ignorance, so I decided to write a book about it. [Audience laughter]. And then I figured the best way to do it was to go up north and I did that, and I spent a winter up in Alaska [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q797]. And that was where I really got into this illusion thing, because, you know, all the different, very very strange things that happen there, like white-outs, which you probably are familiar with here, as well, where a man suddenly loses all sense of up and down and forward and backward. They have better ones than that, though. They have, until the snowmobile rolls around, when people used to mush with dogs, they'd continually have this happening: a man would set off from one village for another, with his dogs, and he'd be perfectly well-dressed and perfectly well-fed, and apparently perfectly sane, and the dogs would arrive, and the sled would arrive but the man wouldn't, and they possibly found him and possibly not. But no one could ever understand what would make a man suddenly step off his sleigh and walk off in an entirely different direction to die. When he certainly didn't have it on his list of things to do when he left. They still haven't figured that out. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that man's body is made up of such an incredible percentage of water, and very strange things happen to water up there. [Audience laughter]. Anyway, I almost got caught by an avalanche, so I thought I'd check into it and I'd find out what you do if you do get caught by one, cause I figured by that time that survival was probably a good thing. So, they said, one of the things you do is, if you get caught by an avalanche, you make swimming motions with your hands. I guess the idea is that kind of tends to keep you close to the surface, which is a good place to be. Now...[audience laughter] the lovely illusion part, which really intrigued me, was that a man can survive under the snow up to a depth of approximately six feet, but only for a certain period of time, and apparently the closer you are to the surface, the better your chances are, and the way they dig for, well, it's not necessarily logical up there, at least it didn't seem like it, but the way they dig for a man like this is they use sounding rods, and these are very sensitive rods, like, almost like tuning forks, and they walk along, in a very definite rhythm, it's almost like a musical score, and they ram these poles in, one foot deep, about a foot at a time, and attempt to hit somebody that's buried underneath it. And then they go back again and they do it at two feet, and then at three feet and four feet to six feet, they don't go any deeper. Now the peculiar part of it is that they of course can't hear anyone, but the poor bugger that's under the snow can hear very, very clearly. And, you know, and he'll hear people saying, like I wonder where, I think there's a place he might be, and he'll be shouting in there, saying, \"I'm here,\" you know, \"I'm here!\" and they can't hear him, and it's really quite terrifying. Sound only travels one way through an avalanche, I don't...[Audience laughter]. Anyway, I'll, let me read some poems about it, I'll...File of Uncertainties was written in a very short time and mostly about the same thing, and you'll find recurring images all the way through, stylistic things that are similar all the way through, and the poems, because they match together fairly tightly, I didn't even bother naming them, I just numbered them, because they're all part of the same sequence. This is number four. \n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:09:27\nReads \"File of Uncertainties: #4\" from File of Uncertainties.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:10:25\nReads \"File of Uncertainties: #3\" from File of Uncertainties.\n\nAndreas Schroeder\n00:12:13\nReads \"File of Uncertainties: #5\" from File of Uncertainties.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:12:54\nReads \"File of Uncertainties: #8\" from File of Uncertainties.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:13:50\nI took up sky-diving after I came back and, because...yeah, believe it or not, it had very similar illusions going for it again. When...it's much like the white-out. When you jump off an aircraft, and it banks away, generally to your left, then you suddenly lose all points of reference. And because the earth below you is much too far away to really mean anything, and your parachute is still on your back, in other words not opened, so you can't, you haven't got anything above you either, you suddenly get hit with this incredibly stony silence, and absolutely nothing happens. I mean, you don't fall, you're not moving, you're not even really thinking because it's so suddenly quiet. It seems like everything just freezes. And in fact you're falling at about three hundred feet a second, but you have no sense of it whatsoever. And you just stand there in the sky, and kind of look around, and nothing is going on. Which is why you're not supposed to be stoned when you skydive because, [audience laughter] sometimes people tend to forget, you know. So I wrote a poem about it, and, actually it's not...well anything. It's “#9”, is what it is. \n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:15:18\nReads \"#9\" [from File of Uncertainties].\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:17:31\nAlright, here's another poem from the north--\"#12\".\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:17:38\nReads \"# 12\".\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:18:29\nI think I'll just let that go for a minute there and go into some prose and then I'll just read some unpublished poems. This first story that I'm going to read is entitled \"The Tree\", and I wrote it after I met a very lovely old man down in Australia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q408]. Very old. He was an aborigine, and we tried to communicate; he didn't know my language and I didn't know his, which is maybe why we got along so well, but anyway, I built a story up on him. This was on a coral island...of course all islands down there are coral islands. \n \nAnnotationAndreas Schroeder\n00:19:19\nReads \"The Tree\" [from The Late Man].\n \nAudience\n00:25:45\nApplause.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:25:54\nHere's another short one, entitled \"The Pub\", sort of a frenzied affair. They don't--it's sort of illegal to have fights in pubs, and in Vancouver I was the very happy observer of one, finally. Pub fights have sort of a beautiful ritualistic thing as long as you're not involved, like if you're just kind of watching, and the Cecil Hotel staged one one night and after that I wrote this, although it has nothing to do with that. \n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:26:23\nReads \"The Pub\" [from The Late Man].\n \nAudience\n00:31:28\nApplause.\n \nEND\n00:31:32\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\n\nandreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-4.mp3 [File 4 of 4]\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:00:00\nReads [“The Theft” from The Late Man]. \n \nAudience\n00:05:03\nApplause.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:05:09\nRight, just one more. This one is, is quite different. Quite different. In fact, if there is such a thing as a manifesto, I guess that's what it is. Or let's say it's a map or something about roughly where I'm at. It's called \"The Cage\".\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:05:32\nReads \"The Cage\" [from The Late Man]. \n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:15:11\nThat's all. \n \nAudience\n00:15:12\nApplause.\n \nAndreas Schroeder\n00:15:19\nI don't know how to get that off. \n \nEND\n00:15:24"],"Note":["[{\"note\":\"Year-Specific Information:\\n\\nMaxine Gadd had published air two the previous year (1971), and was living in a commune on Galiano Island. Backup to Babylon: poems 1972-1987 collects poems Gadd wrote in 1972.\\n\\nIn 1972, Schroeder had just finished publishing The late man and File of Uncertainties, was editing The Journal of Contemporary Literature in Translation, writing for the Vancouver Province, and was completing his M.A. from UBC.\",\"type\":\"General\"},{\"note\":\"Local Connections:\\n\\nWhile shying away from mainstream poetic circles and public life, Gadd’s work and life has been deeply rooted in Canadian artistic discourse, creating a community and social activism. A Vancouver poet, Gadd was associated with other writers like Gerry Gilbert, Roy Kiyooka, bill bissett, and Daphne Marlatt. She met George Bowering, David Bromige and Lionel Kearns in Earle Birney’s UBC creative writing classes in the early 60’s.\\n\\nAlso a Vancouver writer, Schroeder has contributed over a dozen publications to Canadian literature, in poetry, prose, non-fiction, fiction, young adult non-fiction as well as contributing to CBC radio shows and Vancouver newspapers. A professor in Creative Non-fiction at the University of British Columbia, Schroeder has also represented writers in political positions and unions.\",\"type\":\"General\"},{\"note\":\"4 reel-to-reel tapes>4 CDs>4 digital files\",\"type\":\"Preservation\"},{\"note\":\"Original transcript by Rachel Kyne\\n\\nOriginal print catalogue, introduction, research and edits by Celyn Harding-Jones\\n\\nAdditional research and edits by Ali Barillaro\",\"type\":\"Cataloguer\"}]"],"Related_works":["[{\"url\":\"http://www.thinkcity.ca/node/133\",\"citation\":\"“Andreas Schroeder”. Story Tellers. Think City: Ideas for the 21st Century Vancouver. Think City Society, Vancouver, B.C. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.annickpress.com/Contributors/S/Schroeder-Andreas\",\"citation\":\"“Andreas Schroder”. Authors. Annick Press: Excellence & Innovation in Children’s Literature. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.writersunion.ca/member/andreas-schroeder\",\"citation\":\"“Andreas Schroeder”. Members’ Pages. The Writers’ Union of Canada.  2009. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-companion-to-canadian-literature/oclc/605246871&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Davey, Frank. \\\"Schroeder, Andreas\\\". The Oxford Companion to Canadian Literature. Eugene Benson and William Toye (eds). Oxford University Press 2001. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/air-two/oclc/53868052&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Gadd, Maxine. air two. Vancouver: Air, 1971. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/lost-language-selected-poems/oclc/8919395&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Gadd, Maxine. Lost Language: Selected Poems. Daphne Marlatt and Ingrid Klassen (eds). Toronto: Coach House Press, 1982. \"},{\"url\":\"http://intermedia.vancouverartinthesixties.com/voices/012\",\"citation\":\"“Intermedia”. The Intermedia Catalogue. The Michael de Courcy Archive, 2009. \"},{\"url\":\"http://www.ccca.ca/history/ozz/english/authors/gadd_maxine.html\",\"citation\":\"(Maxine Gadd) “Maxine Gadd”. One Zero Zero: A Virtual Library of English Canadian Small Presses 1945-2044. Centre for Contemporary Canadian Art: York University, Toronto, 1997.  \"},{\"url\":\"http:// www.newstarbooks.com/author.php?author_id=3119\",\"citation\":\"“Maxine Gadd”. New Star Books website. Vancouver, British Columbia. \"},{\"url\":\"http://12or20questions.blogspot.com/2008/01/12-or-20-questions-with-maxine-gadd.html\",\"citation\":\"McLennan, Rob. “12 or 20 Questions: with Maxine Gadd”. Rob McLennan’s Blog. January 11, 2008.\"},{\"url\":\"http://www.vancouverartinthesixties.com/people/31\",\"citation\":\"“People: Maxine Gadd”. Ruins in Process: Vancouver Art in the Sixties. Digital Archive of Artwork, Ephemera and Film.\"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/ozone-minotaur/oclc/806554234&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Schroeder, Andreas. The Ozone Minotaur. Vancouver: Sono Nis Press, 1969. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/file-of-uncertainties-poems/oclc/421970309&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Schroeder, Andreas. File of Uncertainties: Poems. Vancouver: Sono Nis Press, 1971. \"},{\"url\":\"https://www.worldcat.org/title/late-man/oclc/654160621&referer=brief_results\",\"citation\":\"Schroeder, Andreas. The Late Man. Vancouver: Sono Nis Press, 1972. \"}]"],"_version_":1853670548949696512,"timestamp":"2026-01-07T14:59:53.477Z","digital_description":["[{\"file_url\":\" https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/I0006_11_0109-1_tape.jpg\",\"file_path\":\"\",\"filename\":\"I0006_11_0109-1_tape.jpg\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"\",\"notes\":\"https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0cAe1GF8xZsc62jpUDXwgvyCd6ZmvSw\",\"title\":\"Gadd and Schroeder Tape Box 1 - Reel\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/I0006_11_0109-1_front.jpg\",\"file_path\":\"\",\"filename\":\"I0006_11_0109-1_front.jpg\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"\",\"notes\":\"https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0cAe1GF8xZsc62jpUDXwgvyCd6ZmvSw\",\"title\":\"Gadd and Schroeder Tape Box 1 - 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Front\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/I0006_11_0109-4_back.jpg\",\"file_path\":\"\",\"filename\":\"I0006_11_0109-4_back.jpg\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"\",\"notes\":\"https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0cAe1GF8xZsc62jpUDXwgvyCd6ZmvSw\",\"title\":\"Gadd and Schroeder Tape Box 4 - Back\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/I0006_11_0109-4_side.jpg\",\"file_path\":\"\",\"filename\":\"I0006_11_0109-4_side.jpg\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"\",\"notes\":\"https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0cAe1GF8xZsc62jpUDXwgvyCd6ZmvSw\",\"title\":\"Gadd and Schroeder Tape Box 4 - Spine\",\"credit\":\"Drew Bernet\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Photograph\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/andreas_schroeder_1_i006-11-109-3.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"andreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-3.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:31:32\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"75.7 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"andreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-3.mp3 [File 3 of 4]\\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:00:01\\nOkay, we won't be using a flute this time, I think it's a bass trombone but I'm not sure.  It'll be up to Andy. I'd like to introduce to you Andy Schroeder.\\n \\nAudience\\n00:00:15\\nApplause.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:00:40\\nRight. Normally they hang you after a reading. Jesus. I'm going to read from, oh, just kind of a merry jaunt through various books. I think what I'll do is I'll read some of the, some poetry first, and then I'll slip over into fiction. I've just, two days ago, published a book called The Late Man of short fictions and extended prose poems and so on. The work that I've done is gone cyclic in terms of form. I started out with prose poems and went into much more of a linear poetry, and then went back to a fiction which was kind of a half prose poem, half short story, half God knows, film script. And right now I'm working hard at both styles. First book I published was called The Ozone Minotaur, and it was more surreal than anything I'm doing now. I really get very excited about illusions, and I guess that's probably what most of my work is all about. At first I was very interested in surreal illusions; now I'm very interested in real illusions, and I'm not sure there's any difference. Here's a prose poem from way back called \\\"Introduction\\\".\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:02:10\\nReads \\\"Introduction\\\" from The Ozone Minotaur.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:03:15\\nAfter I found out that you couldn't live by writing poetry, I took a job with CPAir [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q986941]. That doesn't really sound like a very logical progression, but anyway, it was a teletype machine that they put me on, I think I lasted about four days, but I got a poem out of it, and it's entitled \\\"Cables\\\".\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:03:35\\nReads \\\"Cables\\\" [from The Ozone Minotaur].\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:05:29\\nThis next book, File of Uncertainties, I supposed was kind of created when I woke up one morning and was overwhelmed with my own ignorance, so I decided to write a book about it. [Audience laughter]. And then I figured the best way to do it was to go up north and I did that, and I spent a winter up in Alaska [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q797]. And that was where I really got into this illusion thing, because, you know, all the different, very very strange things that happen there, like white-outs, which you probably are familiar with here, as well, where a man suddenly loses all sense of up and down and forward and backward. They have better ones than that, though. They have, until the snowmobile rolls around, when people used to mush with dogs, they'd continually have this happening: a man would set off from one village for another, with his dogs, and he'd be perfectly well-dressed and perfectly well-fed, and apparently perfectly sane, and the dogs would arrive, and the sled would arrive but the man wouldn't, and they possibly found him and possibly not. But no one could ever understand what would make a man suddenly step off his sleigh and walk off in an entirely different direction to die. When he certainly didn't have it on his list of things to do when he left. They still haven't figured that out. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that man's body is made up of such an incredible percentage of water, and very strange things happen to water up there. [Audience laughter]. Anyway, I almost got caught by an avalanche, so I thought I'd check into it and I'd find out what you do if you do get caught by one, cause I figured by that time that survival was probably a good thing. So, they said, one of the things you do is, if you get caught by an avalanche, you make swimming motions with your hands. I guess the idea is that kind of tends to keep you close to the surface, which is a good place to be. Now...[audience laughter] the lovely illusion part, which really intrigued me, was that a man can survive under the snow up to a depth of approximately six feet, but only for a certain period of time, and apparently the closer you are to the surface, the better your chances are, and the way they dig for, well, it's not necessarily logical up there, at least it didn't seem like it, but the way they dig for a man like this is they use sounding rods, and these are very sensitive rods, like, almost like tuning forks, and they walk along, in a very definite rhythm, it's almost like a musical score, and they ram these poles in, one foot deep, about a foot at a time, and attempt to hit somebody that's buried underneath it. And then they go back again and they do it at two feet, and then at three feet and four feet to six feet, they don't go any deeper. Now the peculiar part of it is that they of course can't hear anyone, but the poor bugger that's under the snow can hear very, very clearly. And, you know, and he'll hear people saying, like I wonder where, I think there's a place he might be, and he'll be shouting in there, saying, \\\"I'm here,\\\" you know, \\\"I'm here!\\\" and they can't hear him, and it's really quite terrifying. Sound only travels one way through an avalanche, I don't...[Audience laughter]. Anyway, I'll, let me read some poems about it, I'll...File of Uncertainties was written in a very short time and mostly about the same thing, and you'll find recurring images all the way through, stylistic things that are similar all the way through, and the poems, because they match together fairly tightly, I didn't even bother naming them, I just numbered them, because they're all part of the same sequence. This is number four. \\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:09:27\\nReads \\\"File of Uncertainties: #4\\\" from File of Uncertainties.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:10:25\\nReads \\\"File of Uncertainties: #3\\\" from File of Uncertainties.\\n\\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:12:13\\nReads \\\"File of Uncertainties: #5\\\" from File of Uncertainties.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:12:54\\nReads \\\"File of Uncertainties: #8\\\" from File of Uncertainties.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:13:50\\nI took up sky-diving after I came back and, because...yeah, believe it or not, it had very similar illusions going for it again. When...it's much like the white-out. When you jump off an aircraft, and it banks away, generally to your left, then you suddenly lose all points of reference. And because the earth below you is much too far away to really mean anything, and your parachute is still on your back, in other words not opened, so you can't, you haven't got anything above you either, you suddenly get hit with this incredibly stony silence, and absolutely nothing happens. I mean, you don't fall, you're not moving, you're not even really thinking because it's so suddenly quiet. It seems like everything just freezes. And in fact you're falling at about three hundred feet a second, but you have no sense of it whatsoever. And you just stand there in the sky, and kind of look around, and nothing is going on. Which is why you're not supposed to be stoned when you skydive because, [audience laughter] sometimes people tend to forget, you know. So I wrote a poem about it, and, actually it's not...well anything. It's “#9”, is what it is. \\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:15:18\\nReads \\\"#9\\\" [from File of Uncertainties].\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:17:31\\nAlright, here's another poem from the north--\\\"#12\\\".\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:17:38\\nReads \\\"# 12\\\".\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:18:29\\nI think I'll just let that go for a minute there and go into some prose and then I'll just read some unpublished poems. This first story that I'm going to read is entitled \\\"The Tree\\\", and I wrote it after I met a very lovely old man down in Australia [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q408]. Very old. He was an aborigine, and we tried to communicate; he didn't know my language and I didn't know his, which is maybe why we got along so well, but anyway, I built a story up on him. This was on a coral island...of course all islands down there are coral islands. \\n \\nAnnotationAndreas Schroeder\\n00:19:19\\nReads \\\"The Tree\\\" [from The Late Man].\\n \\nAudience\\n00:25:45\\nApplause.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:25:54\\nHere's another short one, entitled \\\"The Pub\\\", sort of a frenzied affair. They don't--it's sort of illegal to have fights in pubs, and in Vancouver I was the very happy observer of one, finally. Pub fights have sort of a beautiful ritualistic thing as long as you're not involved, like if you're just kind of watching, and the Cecil Hotel staged one one night and after that I wrote this, although it has nothing to do with that. \\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:26:23\\nReads \\\"The Pub\\\" [from The Late Man].\\n \\nAudience\\n00:31:28\\nApplause.\\n \\nEND\\n00:31:32\\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\",\"notes\":\"Andreas Schroeder reads from The Late Man (SonoNis Press, 1971), The Ozone Minotaur (SoNoNis Press, 1969) and File of Uncertainties (SoNoNis Press, 1971).\\n\\n00:01- Introducer (George Bowering?) introduces Andreas Schroeder. (As Andy).\\n00:40- Andreas Schroeder introduces reading and “Introduction”. [INDEX: The Late Man, prose poetry, form, short fiction, linear poetry, film script (genres melding together), first book The Ozone Minotaur, surreal illusions; from The Ozone Minotaur (SoNoNis Press, 1969).]\\n02:10- Reads “Introduction”.\\n03:15- Introduces “Cables”. [INDEX: CPAir job, teletype machine; from The Ozone Minotaur (SoNoNis Press, 1969).]\\n03:35- Reads “Cables”.\\n05:29- Introduces “File of Uncertainties: IV” and his next book, File of Uncertainties    (SoNoNis Press, 1971). [INDEX: creation of File of Uncertainties, ignorance, spent a      \\twinter in Alaska, illusions, avalanche, survival of man in an avalanche, sounding rods; from File of Uncertainties, (SoNoNis Press, 1971).]\\n09:27- Reads “File of Uncertainties: IV”.\\n10:25- Reads “File of Uncertainties: III”.\\n12:13- Reads “File of Uncertainties: V”.\\n12:54- Reads “File of Uncertainties: VIII”.\\n13:50- Introduces “Number IX”. [INDEX: Sky-diving experiences.]\\n15:18- Reads “Number IX”.\\n17:42- Introduces “Number XII”. [INDEX: poem from the North.]\\n17:38- Reads “Number XII”.\\n18:29- Introduces “The Tree”. [INDEX: prose, Australia, aborigine, coral island; from The Late Man (SoNoNis Press, 1971).]\\n19:19- Reads “The Tree”.\\n25:54- Introduces “The Pub”. [INDEX: Vancouver: illegal pub fights, Cecil Hotel; from The Late Man (SoNoNis Press, 1971).]\\n26:23- Reads “The Pub”.\\n31:32.07- END OF RECORDING\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/andreas-schroeder-at-sgwu-1972/#1\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/andreas_schroeder_2_i006-11-109-4.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"andreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-4.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:15:24\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"37 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"andreas_schroeder_i006-11-109-4.mp3 [File 4 of 4]\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:00:00\\nReads [“The Theft” from The Late Man]. \\n \\nAudience\\n00:05:03\\nApplause.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:05:09\\nRight, just one more. This one is, is quite different. Quite different. In fact, if there is such a thing as a manifesto, I guess that's what it is. Or let's say it's a map or something about roughly where I'm at. It's called \\\"The Cage\\\".\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:05:32\\nReads \\\"The Cage\\\" [from The Late Man]. \\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:15:11\\nThat's all. \\n \\nAudience\\n00:15:12\\nApplause.\\n \\nAndreas Schroeder\\n00:15:19\\nI don't know how to get that off. \\n \\nEND\\n00:15:24\",\"notes\":\"Andreas Schroeder reads from The Late Man (SonoNis Press, 1971), The Ozone Minotaur (SoNoNis Press, 1969) and File of Uncertainties (SoNoNis Press, 1971).\\n\\n00:00- Recording begins suddenly with Andreas Schroeder, potential first line “The living room was littered with papers, pens, bottles...” (short story).    \\n05:09- Introduces “The Cage”. [INDEX: manifesto, map.]\\n05:32- Reads “The Cage”.\\n15:24.10- END OF RECORDING.\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/andreas-schroeder-at-sgwu-1972/#2\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-2.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-2.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:38:37\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"92.7 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-2.mp3 [File 2 of 4]\\n\\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:00:00\\nReads unnamed poem [recording begins abruptly].\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:02:20\\nReads unnamed poem.\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:11:10\\nThis is the thing that the guy that held onto the raft for fourteen days knew. This is what Armstrong [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1615], Collins [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q104859] and Reilley [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q739214] out there, those astronauts, this is what they saved up for. It had to be good. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:11:29\\nReads unnamed poem.\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:23:31\\nThat's the end of that one. \\n \\nAudience\\n00:23:33\\nApplause.\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:23:40\\nI think I made enough noise for a while, huh? My voice is getting sort of sore, or, you know, like that was a trip, so. I got a lot of poems, but...Did you feel like reading now or should we have a break or what? Do you think...do you think we should read some more or what? I got...You want to read some more? \\n \\nUnknown\\n00:23:59\\nAmbient Sound [voices].\\n\\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:24:03\\nDo you want to read some more? \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:04\\nI don't know. I've not nothing in particular form, just bits, that's the problem. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:24:12\\nYou can't do the one on the Goat-god....\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:13\\nOkay, I'll do the Goat-god. Well okay, do you want to try improvising to a trip that's here? I'll let you read it. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:24:22\\nSeriously, I'll do that? \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:23\\nYeah. It's just going to be some sounds. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:24:24\\nOkay. I don't know if I can…[unintelligible].\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:27\\nI gotta find it first. What's that? Are we on? Oh, sorry. God. \\n \\nUnknown\\n00:24:38\\nAmbient Sound [voices].\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:39\\nWhat? The flute? I think it's over there. For fun...the same message...I'm asking...Richard's going to make some noise with my flute. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:24:55\\nI'll make some noise if you'll give me a microphone. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:24:57\\nOkay. Which one do you want? Let's share it. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:01\\nGive me the [unintelligible].\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:25:02\\nIt goes with the poem. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:05\\nWhen'd you do that? \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:25:06\\nWhat?\\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:07\\nThis, this knot. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:25:08\\nI tied myself into it. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:11\\nOh, here we go. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:25:12\\nI don't even know if I can find it. All these little pieces, pieces, pieces. Oh, here it is. Now how it goes, you have to keep quiet until...let's see now. He's never done this before.  \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:40\\nWhat did, yeah, what do you want me to do with it? \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:25:42\\nOkay, this is called \\\"Shore Animals\\\" and it's a speech piece with flute, and the flute has to listen. It can speak too. [Laughter]. You have to listen to it. You never heard it\\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:25:57\\nI think it's learning how to speak. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:26:01\\nIt's called \\\"Shore Animals,\\\" it's a speech piece with flute. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:26:07\\nReads \\\"Shore Animals\\\" accompanied by Richard Sommer on flute.\\n \\nAudience\\n00:30:13\\nAudience.\\n\\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:30:15\\nMaybe I'll try to try that one…[audience applause continues throughout].\\n\\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:30:24\\nI'll give you your microphone back. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:30:25\\nYes. How many minutes we got? \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:30:29\\nI don't know. [Unintelligible]. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:30:35\\nOkay, I'm going to read, I'm going to do, this one's totally mindless, okay? It's dedicated to my friend Gerry Gilbert [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5552756] who used to like to do those trips. And you can go to sleep or something, because that's what I want you to do. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:30:51\\nReads \\\"Cantaloup, 29 cents\\\".\\n \\nAudience\\n00:38:33\\nApplause. \\n \\nEND\\n00:38:37\\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\",\"notes\":\"Maxine Gadd reads several poems that were later collected in Lost Language (Coach House Press, 1982), one poem from air two (Air, 1971), but it is likely that many other poems went unpublished.\\n\\n00:00- Maxine Gadd reads, recording starts immediately, possible first line “Big there lady all come together...” [INDEX: from unknown source.]\\n02:20- Potential first line or continuation of last poem: “I promised to Hackett, though the        memory’s gone, of all I thought worthy to tell you, the person”.\\n02:29- Reads unknown poem, first line “The glistening tower in the ozone...”\\n11:10- Introduces unknown poem, first line “I am obedient to every sign...” [INDEX:    Armstrong, Collins, Riley, astronauts; from unknown source.]\\n11:29- Reads first line “I am obedient to every sign...”\\n15:48- Continues with “At this point there’s a maniac treading the stairs above my head...”\\n19:49- Continues with “No burn- the doctor promised this won’t hurt...”\\n24:12- Richard (Sommer?) asks for poem to be read, they sort out a collaboration with Richard and a flute [INDEX: God-goat poem, improvisation: music and poetry]\\n25:42- Gadd introduces “Shore Animals” [INDEX: from unknown source]\\n26:07- Reads “Shore Animals”, flute played by Richard\\n30:13- Sorting out of microphones, etc.\\n30:35- Introduces “Cantaloup, 29 cents” [INDEX: Gerry Gilbert; from unknown source]\\n30:51- Reads “Cantaloup, 29 cents”\\n38:37.60- END OF RECORDING.\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/maxine-gadd-at-sgwu-1972/#2\"},{\"file_url\":\"https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-1.mp3\",\"file_path\":\"files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3\",\"filename\":\"maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-1.mp3\",\"channel_field\":\"\",\"sample_rate\":\"\",\"duration\":\"00:21:09\",\"precision\":\"\",\"size\":\"50.8 MB\",\"bitrate\":\"\",\"encoding\":\"\",\"contents\":\"maxine_gadd_i006-11-109-1.mp3 [File 1 of 4]\\n \\nRichard (Dick)  Sommer\\n00:00:00\\nI'd like to introduce you to two poets who are Vancouver [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q24639] friends of mine. Their poetry is quite different, as you'll discover. But from my own point of view, they...I owe both of them a debt that is similar in both cases though neither probably knows it. They've made me, in their own ways, rethink my own feelings about  what ought to constitute poetry and poems. And in the case of Maxine Gadd, this thinking went into a review which was then sent to the Firepoint which then folded. So you may never see that. And in the case of Andy Schroeder [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4755619], found its way into a long tape harangue between the two of us on the subject of form in poetry. Which I think is now in the Sir George Williams Library [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5159005], where any of you can endure it if you wish to. At any rate, the first of these poets to read will be Maxine Gadd. There will be a fifteen minute break, and then Andreas Schroeder will read. Maxine. \\n \\nAudience\\n00:01:32\\nApplause. \\n \\nRichard (Dick) Sommer\\n00:02:01\\nYou're plugged in. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:02:03\\nOh boy. Can you hear me? I don't know how much projection to do. I don't know how much to talk about the poetry. My connection is very loose to the mainstream I guess, because, I don't know, I'm just not socially related to what's going on maybe in the poetry reading. I guess my identifications with words are somewhat with a West Coast hippie trip. And between the country and the city, the first feeling being, you know, the desire for purity, you know when you're seventeen or eighteen years old and you've figured the country life is it. And later coming to realize the necessity of the communal life and the city. So I think that's a task I'm going to try to set myself right here. I...this...I'm going to read first of all the second \\\"well\\\" poem, which I did, experienced in the country, living in the country. I remember the first \\\"well\\\" poem, I don't remember where it's gone, because it didn't get published. I disregarded its importance, you know. I tended to take the judgment of editors, and you know, people that set themselves up as authorities, and that's why I'm here, you know. I've kept close enough to them, I guess. I remember the first one went something like, \\\"Wanting pure water I went to the well/too wonderful\\\"...and there was something about the oracle as the bucket clacked. This is the “Second Well Poem”. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:03:57\\nReads \\\"Second Well Poem\\\" [published later as “Well poem” in Lost Language].\\n\\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:04:41\\nWhich is about where I feel right now. But that's about where my connection to poetry is right now. I wonder if that...I wonder if that one's around. I don't think it is. I guess I'll just take it as it comes. There's some scheme in this. I guess, I got published by a cat, by bill bissett [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4911496] you might have heard, who did the thing, did the guru thing, the super-energy thing of getting a lot of work done, and getting a lot of people's work out, and a lot of his work out, a lot of it was real shit but he got it out, you know, and some of it worked and some of it didn't, but there was so much of it, you know...I'd like to have had that confidence, you know, I guess almost, most people write poetry, they've got it all in their trunk, you know, they don't get it out. But I guess that's what it takes. This is from one of his first, really cheap magazines. He put, he...it's typed, you know. Pretty good typing. His typing got worse, I get very angry, he makes lots of mistakes. But he did a lot of drawings and things, if anybody wants to look at it, you know.  I mean, he did it minimum, you know, he was living really poor. And a lot of people still read his stuff, so, I mean, to me he was a folk poet in that sense, a lot of people still read his stuff because he got the stuff out cheap, you know. \\\"Trip\\\".\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:06:05\\nReads \\\"Trip\\\".\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:07:47\\nI'm going to go over there. This one is to a poet who is in the, is in another world, okay? He looks like a silver lizard, and he's very beautiful, and he knows all about the Greek trip, and Eleusis, which is one's talking about in the first poem, okay, the oracles from under the ground, that belief you must start out with. It's called...and it's admiration, as well as a bit of terror.\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:08:22\\nReads unnamed poem. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:10:19\\nLeary, I should have mentioned, was Timothy Leary. Oh, I should have explained that before, yeah. Oh yeah, this is where I met...now I don't like it okay? And it's probably not a good poem. But that's, that's...you know, that's...the kind of art form I'd like to have seen as a collective art form, was what I yearned and hoped for. Poetry is what people write in rooms alone, and I don't like...I don't, you know, that's what I was stuck with. And I worked for a while with a group in Vancouver called, named, we called it \\\"Intermedia\\\". And I had the experience of working with a group, at one point there were five of us poets, you know, or what we called poets. And we'd go around to various places, we went to Edmonton [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2096] one time, and we tried things, we tried chanting and wailing, like, was it...who was that crazy old lady. Sitwell, Edith Sitwell [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q259921], remember her? And if you ever heard the sort of sing, the song, sing sing she used to do, you know, we tried that. And it really worked, you know, but you'd go around and you'd say, \\\"Do you dig the poems?\\\" and they'd say, \\\"I can't hear them, but we really like your voice.\\\" You know. [Audience laughter]. So, you know, left that, you got an ache in the gut or something.   \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:11:37\\nReads \\\"Ratio\\\".\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:12:48\\nI don't like it. I don't want to be there. Here's one from last year. I got into printing stuff myself, you know, and I do that--I wish, oh, you can't see it, can you? It was mimeograph, it was real cheap, you know? And you could take images, you could take newspaper articles, you could take scraps of anything you saw that you dug, you know, put 'em together, and to me that was a, that was a form of concrete poetry. Can't, of course, I don't know, you couldn't really say that one or any number of them. This one is half-said, okay. Behind it I put a map, I found a map of B.C. [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1974]and Minster Island [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21906024] was a map, was an island I found once when I was working on a ship as a mess girl, on a freighter. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:13:46\\nReads unnamed poem.\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:15:33\\nAnd where that ended up was just over the name Bella Coola [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q815765], which is sort of where they do, can fish. There's no escape, though, you know? And...so then I want to read about Kitsilano [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4179275], where most of...I happened, you know, I grew up. Kitsilano's a sort of slum district of Vancouver. And it's disintegrating, and you probably all experienced this, you know, being city people, you know, they're bulldozing the places, there's no more cheap places to live, and so your friends, you know, you can't live there anymore, your friends can't live there anymore, so whatever you had, which was sometimes very heavy, you know, community's really beautiful, you know? I used to go over and play music with my friends. We had to move out, you know, because the city's being destroyed, and only the people who are well-to-do, who have some sort of stake in the city, you know, who are supporting the structure can stay. And this poem is about somebody who I met one day on the street, you know, and her story, she's sort of sick, just on the street, everything's falling to pieces. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:16:55\\nReads “bee-people on 4th avenue” [published later in Lost Language].\\n\\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:18:32\\nWho's singing out there? But here, on the next street, you know, I ran into a friend of mine. Her name's Martina. And, you know, we're about the same age, and we've been through a lot of things, and, we've been through some bad things, you know, lots of rejections and refusal, no, there's no food now, you can't have any, go away, you know, fighting over somebody or other. \\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:18:58\\nReads “4th ave” [published later in Lost Language].\\n \\nMaxine Gadd\\n00:20:49\\nUs old ladies. Okay, but that's not entirely true. I got involved into all that magic stuff, you know, the Sufis, and into politics, and like this summer I hope I'm going to start some sort of woman's centre, back where I live, you know. \\n \\nEND\\n00:21:09\\n[Unknown amount of time elapsed before start of next recording].\",\"notes\":\"Maxine Gadd reads several poems that were later collected in Lost Language (Coach House Press, 1982), one poem from air two (Air, 1971), but it is likely that many other poems went unpublished. \\n\\n00:00- Unknown Introducer (George Bowering?) introduces Andreas Schroeder and Maxine Gadd [INDEX: Vancouver poets, Firepoint magazine, tape interview between Schroeder and Introducer found in the Sir George Williams Library (not there anymore).]\\n02:03- Maxine Gadd introduces “The Second Well Poem”.  [INDEX: mainstream poetry, poetry scene (being outside of), country vs. city life, role of editors; perhaps published as “Well Poem” in Lost Language (1982).]\\n03:57- Reads “The Second Well Poem”.\\n04:41- Introduces “Trip”. [INDEX: Gadd’s connection to poetry, bill bissett publishing her    book, publishing poetry; from unknown source.]\\n06:05- Reads “Trip”.\\n07:47- Introduces unknown poem, first line “Robin has the horse in hand...”. [INDEX: Greek trip, Eleusis, oracles; from unknown source.]\\n08:22- Reads unknown poem, first line “Robin has the horse in hand...”.\\n10:19- Introduces “Ratio”. [INDEX: explains “Leary” from previous poem is Timothy Leary, \\tcollective art forms, working with Intermedia in Vancouver, poetry group traveled to Edmonton, Edith Sitwell.]\\n11:37- Reads “Ratio”.\\n12:48- Introduces unknown poem, first line “Heading up to Minster Island”. [INDEX: self        publishing poems, collages, form of concrete poetry, map of B.C., worked as a mess girl on a freighter.]\\n13:46- Reads unknown poem, first line “Heading up to Minster Island”.\\n15:33- Introduces “bee-people on 4th avenue”. [INDEX: Bella Coola, fishing, Kitsilano where she grew up, poverty and destruction of Vancouver; from Lost Language]\\n16:55- Reads “bee-people on 4th avenue”. \\n18:32- Introduces “4th ave.” [INDEX: friend of Gadd’s named Martina; from air two and Lost Language.]\\n18:58- Reads “4th ave.”\\n20:49- Begins to introduce another poem, unknown. [INDEX: Sufism, politics, hopes to start a  women’s centre.]\\n21:09.94- END OF RECORDING\",\"title\":\"\",\"credit\":\"\",\"caption\":\"\",\"content_type\":\"Sound Recording\",\"featured\":\"\",\"public_access_url\":\"https://montreal.spokenweb.ca/sgw-poetry-readings/maxine-gadd-at-sgwu-1972/#1\"}]"],"score":3.6228101}]